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| Retired police officer Curtis Reeves. |
An argument between two moviegoers turned deadly on Monday when a 71-year-old retired cop allegedly shot and killed another man in a Florida theater where the victim had been texting during the previews. According to police, the confrontation began when Curtis Reeves, a retired police captain, asked 43-year-old Chad Oulson to put his phone away. "It ended almost as quickly as it started," said Pasco County Sheriff's spokesman Doug Tobin.
The best account of the sad incident I've seen so far comes from Charles Cummings, an eyewitness who was in the movie theater with his son when the shooting happened. "Somebody throws popcorn.... And then bang, he was shot," Cummings, who reportedly left the theater splattered with blood, recounted to media that had gathered in the Tampa suburb.
According to Cummings' version of events, there was a brief pause during the argument during which Reeves left the auditorium. At the time, Cummings assumed Reeves had done so to get a manager, but when he returned without one in tow the fight resumed and quickly escalated. Reeves then allegedly took out a gun, killing Oulson and shooting his wife in the hand in the process.
Apparently bail has been denied for Reeves, whose lawyer had this to say:
Reeves' lawyer, Richard Escobar, argued that with his long list of credentials on the Tampa police force and as security for the Busch Gardens amusement park he should be trusted to be let out of jail on bond.
"He's been protecting the community from individuals that do commit crimes," said Escobar, adding that he believes "his danger to the community is nonexistent."
Escobar said the courtroom was filled with retired law enforcement willing to attest that his client has "no propensity whatsoever for violence."
"No propensity for violence?" Perhaps somebody should tell that to Mr. Oulson's grieving widow.
You know I get angry when people are rude during movies as well. The difference is I don't bring a gun, so nobody has to die for my irritation.
This all happened before the movie even started. In another article (Daily Kos) it stated that the victim was texting during the previews. Something about his 3 yr old and a babysitter. Not sure which one he was texting, I am assuming the sitter. I could understand anger at someone doing this during the actual movies....but the previews? and gun shots???? This was not a Stand Your Ground, which I understand Mr Reeves is trying to use as an excuse. This was an over the top reaction to a small annoyance. I agree with the judge about bail, for now. Keep him away from press conferences - try to keep the media circus contained.
ReplyDeleteIf Mr Reeves never showed a previous propensity for violence then perhaps a psych evaluation is needed? This was not a rational act.
Most likely texting his daughter he loved her before she was put to bed.
DeleteLast time he ever did. If there is a hell, this inhumane waste of biomass is headed straight for it come his demise.
The sad part of this story is that there was one disturbed individual in that movie theater and he had a gun.
ReplyDeleteWhat we NEED is for ALL disturbed individuals in our movie theaters to all have guns.
SUPPORT your NRA!
Hey, just one gun per person isn't enough.
DeleteWhat good citizen would go to see the Hobbit without a .45 concealed, a .38 on your leg, night vision goggles, and a bullet proof vest, and tactical helmet
I'm sure the NRA would consider that person the only true patriot at the show
I can't wait to hear the NRA's weak-ass excuse to justify this retired cop.
DeleteDeadly assault by popcorn kernel? You could take an eye out with that thing. The salt really stings.
9:06, We won't hear anything from the NRA. Whenever something like this happens they always stay quiet. They know better than to draw attention to themselves after an incident like this, because it will only remind the public how ridiculous their reasons are for carrying gun.
DeleteNo doubt before this happened the NRA would have told everyone this retired cop carrying a concealed weapon would be an excellent example of a "good guy with a gun". Well, we now know that even the most unlikely person we would have expected to be a "bad guy carrying a gun" can commit murder when a gun is readably available. Maybe this should be an example for all of us on the dangers of carrying a gun.
It does not matter one bit that this murderer "has never been prone to violence"
ReplyDeleteIf anything, as a cop, and a police captain to boot, he should be held to a higher standard of respect for the law than anyone else except maybe military folks
He deserves life in prison at best, with no chance of parole
Exactly. And I am appalled his fellow police officers some how think he should get a pass on this. No bail? No danger? Really? I hardly think so. His actions indicate he is a real danger to the community. I'm sure he has another gun stashed somewhere. What next? Shoot a neighbor over rattling trash cans or dog poop?
DeleteI'd like to know what his wife didn't caution him with "No Curtis, it's just the preview. Leave it be until the movie starts. Then you can call the manager if he doesn't stop." or something to that effect.
DeleteWives are usually the referees in these matters.
I think Chad's wife was trying to get him to back off when her husband was shot through her hand on his chest.
So happy I live in civilized Canada, where the only place guns are allowed are on shooting ranges, one's own farm, and designated hunting areas. No way would I enter a bar, restaurant, movie theatre, retail establishment etc. in any state that permits it. The days of the wild, wild west were over more than a century ago. It's long past time when a gun serves as substitute for the law.
ReplyDeleteAmen Maple! If Canada would have me, I would leave this country in a second flat.
DeleteTEXASMEL
I am seriously thinking about retiring somewhere other than the US. They have dialed up the crazy to 11 here.
DeleteI wonder if the wild, wild west was even this bad. Were there mass murders then in theaters, schools & public places where innocent people were mowed down by insane lunatics?
DeleteI visited a horse farm in Canada where a rifle was kept handy in the tack room so it was available to shoot wolves that go after the foals. The bullets were kept separately under lock and key. A good example of very responsible gun owners with a good reason for owning a gun.
DeleteI'd like to see gun control in this country similar to Canada's. Starting 1st with controlling high capacity assault weapons. Owner should have to prove a need, and accept regular surprise inspections that the weapon is properly stored.
Oh, that makes me feel even SAFER (not that I've set foot in a Busch Garden for decades) to know that the movie shooter had a clean record as a theme-park rent-a-cop.
ReplyDeleteWhy is it when someone mentions "Rent a Cop", I immediately envision George Zimmerman?
DeleteActually, it's been reported that at a previous movie, he sat and glared at a woman who was texting as well. Apparently he was noticeable enough that she recognized him from the photos, and now she's retroactively freaked out that she could have been shot. I was reading that from a link on Facebook earlier today Sorry, no link. .
ReplyDeleteI understand that many people are annoyed by the sight of cell phone use in any public place, but I've never heard any logical reason for why. It's certainly no less disturbing than talking to somebody you're sitting or walking with. In fact, less so: you can't hear the other person's response. If the cell ring is on vibrate, and the person is holding the cell phone in front of them, it would create less light than the movie lights and the screen and even the flashlights that attendants walk through with. I don't get what the problem is with cell phones. So you're sitting in a restaurant talking in a normal tone of voice on your cell, as you would if your friend was sitting with you: can somebody explain why this is so terrible?
Ivyfree
Technology has passed them by?
DeleteI personally am irritated by seeing people on cell phones while driving (it's illegal in my state) and in the grocery store. Grocery shopping is usually a quiet activity. I find it peaceful. But then there is the shopper yakking on her phone. No she is not confirming what size of cereal or what brand of milk. It's just some inane conversation that could have waited until another time. And she is disturbing my peaceful, quiet grocery shopping.
DeleteThere's a reason I only have a land line and it isn't because I am a Luddite because I am not. I *teach* technology. It's because I don't want to be accountable for contact 24-7. I don't want to be disturbed while I'm shopping or at the gym or away from my home for some reason. Leave a message and I'll call you back. I have specific security reasons why I don't do Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Pinterest, etc. too. No anti-technology. Pro-privacy.
I don't have a problem with the key tapping texting during a movies previews. But I'd have a lot of problems with a conversation during the movie. In our local theaters, you turn your cell phone off for the movie or they take it away.
Talking on a cell phone is distracting for the driver, and it usually prevents one hand from being engaged on the steering wheel. That actually is a safety thing, shown by actual studies. I have no problems with the no cell phone use while driving statutes.
DeleteAgain, your irritation at other people talking on a cell phone during grocery shopping: you claim it makes too much noise and you can't enjoy the peace of shopping. I don't know what time of day you shop, but when I shop, I see people all over talking with each other. Again, if it's a cell phone, you're only hearing half the conversation, so why would this irritate you more than a couple of people shopping together and conversing? Do you expect the entire grocery-shopping public to silence themselves in your presence? Because I think that's probably doomed to failure.
I don't believe I said anything in favor of talking at the movies. But texting? Why should texting be disallowed? Again, if the sound-effect is turned off, texting makes no noise and minimal light.
I don't care why you don't have a cell phone. I do, and I actually would categorize myself as a luddite, as I use it only to make and receive phone calls. I'm told it takes pictures, but when I tried once, I couldn't find the picture later. It does not access the internet. I can't watch movies or even read books on it, let alone play games. I just don't see why noticing that other people are either talking or texting on a cell phone in a public place is so rude and offensive. It's basically just talking with another person, which is fine in public, especially if clothed.
Ivyfree
I don't want to come across as if I'm attacking you, Ivyfree. I just think it's important to see that a lot of people get annoyed and distracted by movie texters, even though many other don't.
DeleteOf course, texting during the previews is fine and nobody deserves to be executed for texting or talking.
I HATE texting during movies. Sure, it's quiet. But the light!!! Try this-- next time you are in a pitch black place, have someone ahead of you (even several rows over etc) text. Almost like a flashlight in your eyes it is so annoying. WHAT in sam hell is so important? If he needed to text, he should have gone outside. (Previews I'm a little more lenient on, but definitely for movies). Now, would I SHOOT the person? No. But I would ask them to stop-- over and over again if necessary.
DeleteCell phone talkers tend to talk MUCH louder than normal folks having a conversation in person. I think it has to do with the way the sound in the cell phone earpiece doesn't sound the "same" way. I guarantee if you take the decibel level of average adult convo and compare it to decibel level of one side of a cell convo, you'd see a big difference.
Ivyfree, it is annoying to sit in the row behind a person who is texting, filming, photographing or whatever with the little smart phone while you are trying to concentrate on the film or concert. The light from their phone screens is very obnoxious to those around them. There is still room for civility and consideration of others in this age of instant gratification and communications.
DeleteAt our local movie theatre, people are asked to turn OFF their mobile devices before the movie starts and at local concert venues, the same request is made as is the notice that the concert cannot be recorded or filmed. We had to endure sitting behind an insufferable woman who, during a concert at the Interlochen Arts Academy, kept holding her phone up to film what was going on on the stage, despite the written notice on the program me and the audio announcement prior to the beginning of the concert. It was very annoying. Between pieces being played, my husband reminded her that she was not supposed to be doing what she was doing. Slowed her down a bit but then she was busy at it again. It was rude and disconcerting to others, against the rules of the venue and, frankly, illegal.
If the person in the Tampa area movie theatre continued to text once the feature film started, the old guy should have gone to a manager and let the manager deal with the situation. That's what theatre managers are there for.
Beaglemom
I noticed that everyone phrased their comments here politely.
DeleteI also noticed that of those who were clear that they really can't stand the irritations of other people's cell phone use, *not one* suggested that it should be a capital crime, deserving of the death penalty applied without arrest, arraignment, trial or verdict.
The shooter appointed himself judge, jury, and executioner in violation of everything our country is supposed to stand for.
I agree, Nefer.
DeleteEver go to the movies, and there's a few seats left, you buy your tickets, stand in line for popcorn, candy, soda etc. Then rush in, only to find the couple in front of you is a young couple, the male doused in AXE Cologne, body wash, moisturizer, deodorant and mousse. His lovely partner has her hair up in a bouffant the size of tower 2 of the WTC, she's doused in some kind of cheap perfume that clashes with the boyfriend's, and they're both fidgeting in their seats the whole time looking in the mirror, teasing their hair and yakking on the phone, googleing, facebooking, and taking selfies?
THAT should be a captial crime! LOL I hate having to ask for my money back, The movies are expensive as hell and having people ruin it sucks, but violence is never the answer.
I think it's more likely that he has beginning of Alzheimers, rather than that he is a horrible person. Possibly this is one of the early signs. However, a person with control issues (he is a police officer), a gun, and Alzheimers needs to be controlled to protect society. I suspect this is a result of anti-gun-control laws letting a gun be possessed by someone who shouldn't have a gun.
ReplyDeleteI agree, some men (and women) get pretty vicious. My neighbor said her father had been a nice man, but the Alzheimer’s changed him. One day she went to visit him with an injured knee (she was limping); he asked what was wrong, then grabbed the knee and wrenched it as hard as he could. She almost stopped visiting him.
DeleteAfter a certain age you must retake your driver's test to make sure you can still safely operate the vehicle.
DeleteWhy not the same thing for guns? Even if you are former law enforcement.
I've noticed my Mom getting crankier as she ages. In the 65-80 window she would get upset about a lot of piddly stuff and even took to writing letters to the editor. After the 80 hump she seems to have mellowed again, but mostly I think she doesn't care about the little stuff any more. But irritability and crankiness are a trait of the elderly. (Not just the elderly and not all elderly.)
Whatever it was, it is an indication that this guy should NOT have possessed a gun.
But try convincing the die hard right wing nut job NRA fascists of that.
I was thinking about my dad, who was still very sharp when he died. Could do his own taxes, maintain his own home. But somewhere around 70 years old he quit being the adoring father and grandfather I had always known. He had more rules for my kids than he had for me when I was growing up. And the rules weren't necessary-they were stupid rules, not well-thought out rules. It wasn't consistent. Sometimes he was still the adoring father and grandfather.
DeleteAs my mom gets older she gets more like what she has always been. She is more limited, and therefore her world is more narrow. It feels like the world is passing her by. But it isn't a change, although it is an exacerbation of what she has always been. We all still cope with her the way we always have, except with a bit more patience and tolerance.
And maybe he's just a horrible person.
DeleteWell, maybe, but let's just look at the facts as they are known. He committed murder; he should not be at large whether he may be mentally ill or not.
DeleteBeaglemom
Like the woman above said:
DeleteHowever, a person with control issues (he is a police officer), a gun, and Alzheimers needs to be controlled to protect society.
But that's different than calling him evil. And it makes a stronger argument for some gun control.
I'm wondering if he left and got his weapon, then returned already set to shoot. I bet they are looking for videos of him leaving and coming back... (I hope).
ReplyDeleteThat's exactly what I was thinking. He didn't go talk to the manager. Or if he did and was denied satisfaction, possibly went out to the parking lot to retrieve his weapon before returning.
DeleteIf they can prove that, it's motive and intent way before the popcorn was thrown. In fact, it might be proved that he provoked the throwing of the popcorn just so he could shoot the guy.
Like I always say, "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a phone is a good guy with a gun."
ReplyDeleteThanks, Jim. I came here to post an identical message but Im glad to see you got it covered early on.
Deletenot his first time
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cnn.com/2014/01/15/justice/florida-movie-theater-shooting/index.html?c=homepage-t
Dude seriously needs Redbox or Netflix.
ReplyDeleteabsolutely
DeleteWow. One would think the police who are defending bail for this guy would be wiser and note there is a serious mental issue going on with their buddy. He obviously should not have been in possession of any weapon. And, Jesse nobody in their right mind would shoot somebody because they are irritated by their texting behavior in a theatre. Whatever are these police officers thinking defending this fellow’s right to bail? It is simply not rational.
ReplyDelete"No propensity toward violence." Just what do they think this guy did? Or maybe killing someone with a gun is not violence in the minds of some Americans. This is going to end up like the Trayvon Martin murder - the poor perpetrator who only killed an unarmed young man. No sympathy for the non-violent retired policeman who SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER or for the idiots who support him.
ReplyDeleteBeaglemom
Every criminal is an innocent person...until they commit their first crime.
DeleteEvery murderer is an innocent person...until they kill their first victim.
There is NOOOOO excuse for murdering someone for texting during a movie preview and he needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Just HOW can his attorney claim "his danger to the community is nonexistent" when he is responsible for the cold-blooded murder of an innocent father and husband? Has he no shame at all?
If this is what a good guy with a gun looks like, i'm sure glad i'm not living in that continent size asylum...
ReplyDeleteGot to stand you ground against the popcorn - and the skittles - not to mention iced tea.
ReplyDeleteIn the world of US gun laws - he won't be convicted by a jury of his peers.
After an initial investigation, the "Stand Your Ground" defense was ruled out: police determined the victim was white.
ReplyDeleteThe guy is frightening looking even in that submissive photo. Guns should NOT be allowed/carried in churches, theaters, shopping centers, medical offices, hospitals, office buildings, airports and schools.
ReplyDeleteI guess popcorn will now be added to skittles and iced tea as lethal weapons.
ReplyDeleteTampa local news is reporting that not only did the man glare at a woman when she was texting but he also followed her to the bathroom and waited until she came out. She said when the movie was over, she saw the husband and wife walking across the parking lot, the wife tried to take her husband's arm and he violently jerked away. Another couple appeared on the news and said that a couple of weeks ago, they were in the same theater when the same man was visibly and vocally irritated at people who were texting. They were on the news last night saying that they both became uncomfortable when he started glaring at them even though they weren't using a cell in any way.
ReplyDeleteThe man has mental problems but problems or not, it's another case of a gun in the wrong hands. His son is a police officer in Tampa at this time. He was going to meet his parents at the movie but was running late. He had gotten to the theater lobby when his father shot the other man.
I'm surprised that his lawyer mentioned 'self-defense' rather than a possible 'insanity' plea. He reeks of stage one dementia, lost in the old days of when he had power as an enforcer. Beyond tragic that yet another young productive life was taken so callously and effortlessly.
DeleteI guess Slate got it wrong when they reported:
Delete"He's been protecting the community from individuals that do commit crimes," said Escobar, adding that he believes "his danger to the community is nonexistent."
Escobar said the courtroom was filled with retired law enforcement willing to attest that his client has "no propensity whatsoever for violence."
It turns out, that altercation took place BEFORE the start of the movie - it was still the preview time, when Olson texted his little three year old...
ReplyDeleteThat cop is claiming the 'stand your ground' law...
His lawyers and his fellow retired cop supporters don't "Get it". I'm careful with "phone etiquette" in public. If it's a call I MUST take, I haul my butt out of my seat, grab my belongings and phone and go to the lobby. If it's a text, and it's something important, I'll send a short text back discreetly. It's not making any noise that can interrupt someone.
ReplyDeleteI don't care if this guy was Pope, Dalai Lama, Budda, or Jesus Christ, no one deserves to get killed during the previews of a movie for texting. His past behavior protecting the public was his job, and he got his paycheck and retirement pay. What's wrong with people? Who takes a gun to a movie theater? One was armed with a smart phone, the other with a loaded gun. and the one that felt threatened was the one that was packing heat?
We gotta stop this "stand your ground" law and boycott florida until they do. DisneyWorld is no safer than the movie theater, or a mall, gas station, or the road.
No one deserves to be killed for TEXTING before OR during a movie. This is pure insanity.....somewhat similar to the recent court decison against freedom of speech on the internet. My internet speed drops to about 5% everytime I attempt to access this site ......and I used to think it was just that other major server....NOT. Time to stop the war on democracy.
ReplyDeleteThe NRA says all people should carry guns to stop or prevent harm in public places.What if people watching the incident caused gun carriers to start shooting at the shooter? This thinking has been a disaster.
ReplyDeleteI read somewhere that there were around 25 people in the theater. If someone was annoying me by texting, talking, etc., I would have just moved to another seat.
ReplyDeleteBill O'Reilly and others at Fox News have been going on for the past month or so on kids and texting; I would wager that this guy watches.
NRA thinks that we all should carry guns in public places so we can stop dangerous situations. Can you imagine if the movie goers carrying guns pulled them out and started shooting.
ReplyDeleteI heard last night that the retired policeman/perpetrator was calling it a "stand your ground" crime. I thought he would turn all George-Zimmerman-ny. That seems to work in Florida. As someone mentioned above popcorn became as lethal a threat as Skittles.
ReplyDeleteBeaglemom