Courtesy of CNN:
A Cleveland police officer shot 12-year-old Tamir Rice about two seconds after the officer and a partner pulled up in a car to investigate reports that someone was brandishing a gun at a park, surveillance video that police released Wednesday shows.
Tamir, who had what police said is an air gun that looked like a real firearm, died Sunday, a day after he was shot outside a recreation center.
Police also released two audio recordings Wednesday -- a 911 call preceding the shooting and a tape of a dispatcher asking officers to go to the park.
The shooting happened after a person called 911 to report that a black male -- "probably a juvenile" -- was pointing "a pistol" at people outside the recreation center. Twice the caller said the gun might be fake.
The dispatcher radioed to officers about a black male who was "pointing a gun at people," but did not mention that caller's belief that he could be a minor and that the gun might not be a real firearm, one of the released recordings shows.
I held off posting this until the day after Thanksgiving, since I did not want to ruin everybody's holiday.
However it is definitely something worth discussing as it is just one more example of a black person being shot by police officers.
I think his age might immediately bring up Trayvon Martin in a lot of people's minds, but personally my immediate connection was to the death of John Crawford III who was killed by police while holding a fake gun in Wal-Mart back in August. in this case like that one, police seemed to fire before taking the time to assess if the person actually presented a danger to them or to others.
Why the dispatcher did not relay the information of child's age or the caller's beleif that the gun was fake We will probably never know, but it seems clear that if they had done so this young man would still be alive.
I would like to know why, if the officers "believed" the person was armed and dangerous, they approached so close immediately. Obviously, it was to just shoot to kill - end of story. No investigation, no determination of danger. What the hell is wrong with America? Too many guns, too many people (cops and citizens) living in fear all the time. Home of the brave - not so much any more.
ReplyDelete5:38 That was my first thought. If you suspected there was an armed person at the gazebo, why pull right up within 3 feet of the guy?
DeleteWhy not park over on that area to the right? And have a little distance between you and the "armed man?"
Zipping in that close seems to put you at a disadvantage as the guy could have shot the cop in the passenger seat at point blank range. (If it had indeed been someone with a real gun.)
I understand it is not easy to be a cop and many are on edge these days. But that's no reason to come out shooting and not a good time to be reactionary at every instance of a gun report.
And, no, the kid should not have been playing "gun" in a public place.
Parents need to teach their kids that they should NEVER play "gun" and "shoot em up" in public. NEVER. Schools need to teach kids NEVER to play "gun" in a public place.
But he was a kid in a park and kids do dumb things.
Even the person who called in the incident considered and reported that it may have been a kid and he may have had a toy, not the real thing.
If the cops had parked a bit farther from the kid, they would have had a moment to check out the scene and proceed from there.
It's not like the kid had a hostage or that there was anyone nearby to be hurt (from what we can see).
Maybe there were people at the recreation center where the camera was attached on the outside wall? And maybe the cops were trying to make the car a shield between the kid and the building?
Nor was there just one officer, who was driving and couldn't have protected himself as easily if fired upon while driving.
Come on, two highly trained gun officers against one person? In a open area with no place for the kid to hide or run to?
If they were that concerned about the danger, like 5:38 said--why did they zoom in so close from the get go?
And why was the kid hanging out at the gazebo with a gun for so long? Was he hoping for suicide by cop?
Do you think the cops and/or the kid knew the camera was at that location? Did that play a role in what we saw?
It's easy to "Monday morning quarterback" but those are just my thoughts seeing the video the first time.
You'd think that police agencies and police unions would be reviewing these public tapes and doing training on how cops are being perceived by the thinking public when they see these incidents.
If they want the public on their side, they need to be more aware of how the public sees them and to either look as if they are "trying" or teach the public how to interpret videos from the cops' perspective of an incident.
Officers looking needlessly aggressive on video is hurting every officer out there and putting them in needless harm, not to mention the public at large who sees these videos.
No wonder people think the police are "out to get them" when we see so many instances where that appears to be the case.
"Home of the Brave?" No Shit!!!!! It cracks me up how these T-Baggers are shitin' themselves, (according ot FOX)", worrying about ISIS coming across the Rio Grande with vials of Ebola. Hell, they're scared shitless of Mexican produce pickers taking their jobs. You're right, not so much, anymore.
DeleteThat child was murdered for no reason other than he was black and had a toy gun.
ReplyDeleteLOL. Yes, I can laugh at your rank stupidity.
DeleteAnonymous10:15 PM
DeleteLOL. Yes, I can laugh at your rank stupidity.
****
I think YOU better look in the mirror to see "STUPID" GunTroll
I feel for the caller, also, who at least twice stated the possibility of the gun being fake, to no obvious avail. Communications are key in this instance, or lack of. What a GD shame,12 yrs old and dead due to lack of communication, stupidity, and gun happy mindsets. Both those cops should get at least 20yrs apiece, but undoubtedly will get far less if anyhing at all. Makes me sick to think about.
ReplyDeleteThe bad part of this scenario is that the caller wasn't sure what he was seeing and was hoping the police (having the authority) would use their best judgement and handle it appropriately. The man didn't know if a danger actually existed, but perhaps it did. (like when the person called the police on the professor who was "breaking into" his own house). The guilt people will feel believing that they played a role into these events will prevent others from making a call unless they are 100% sure that the situation is one worthy of the police to react rather than investigate. This will result in less calls to the police, and possibly encourage/enable more serious crime to take place.
ReplyDeleteThat last thought of yours, I didn't even think of, but it goes to making feel even sicker about this poor kid having lost his young life. I can only hope those stupid ignorant cops get their just rewards.
DeleteYour parallels are a bit thin, Gryph. John Crawford didn't try to pull or point his apparent weapon when police arrived as Tamir did. His age probably accounts for his poor judgement in playing with the pistol in an inappropriate area and for his failure to be non-threatening when police arrived, but from the police perspective, there are plenty of boys his age in prison for shooting people, and many of those for committing what get explained as "thrill kills." That adds up to a tragedy for everyone involved.
ReplyDeleteHad the dispatcher relayed the entire message, what would have been different? The fact that the caller made reference to the gun as "might be a fake" really isn't information at all. Is it a gun or a fake? It's a gun until it's not. "Probably a juvenile" is just a partial description. A gun that "might be a fake," whether the hand it's in belongs to an adult, a juvenile, or a "might be a juvenile," defines that person as a threat. The caller, despite his "might be" disclaimers, also regarded him as a threat. Why else would he have called for police?
At the root of the entire situation is the fact that the kid wanted to live out his fantasy of wielding the power that comes with a gun. He removed the bright colored add-ons that made his BB-pistol readily identifiable as not being a firearm for a reason. We'll never know what motivated that fantasy, but the reasons we could speculate about are all around us every day and completely normalized in so many ways. For me, the most painful part of this tragedy is that being a normal kid is what got him killed.
Good post. Gryphen's parallels are oft quite thin.
DeleteI agree with everything you said. If he modified a toy gun to look like a real gun, then he wanted people to think it was a real gun. The cops cannot begin every encounter with an armed suspect by asking whether the gun is real or a toy (or expect suspects to answer honestly). If this boy had what appeared to be a real gun; he used it in a manner that appeared, in the cops' judgment, to threaten people; and he ignored commands to put the gun down (I don't know whether he did--I can't stand to read more than what Gryphen posted), then they did what they were trained to do. I would be very surprised if, under those circumstances, they faced any charges.
DeleteIt's tragic that this happened. It's tragic that, as you say, violence is normalized and glorified amongst adolescent boys. I can't begin to imagine the anger, helplessness, and frustration many young black men feel, and that could well contribute to why a 12-year-old was in a public place with a gun, toy or not. So many, many things are wrong with the story--and with our society--but it might not be trigger-happy cops this time.
Cops are human, and they don't always make the "right" call. If I make a mistake at work, I end up in my supervisor's office, and if it's a really bad mistake, I could lose my job. If a cop makes a mistake, people can die, and if it's a really bad mistake, the cop might end up dead, permanently injured, in prison, and/or at the losing end of a career-wrecking lawsuit. I couldn't live with a job that stressful. If they have to make a snap judgment, they'll err on the side of protecting people they know are innocent (and themselves and their fellow officers) rather than trying to save the life of a suspect. Want to change that? Don't target the cops. Change society.
Exactly correct. As far as the police knew -- this was a real gun and they acted appropriately. End of story.
DeleteThere's another possibility in the above scenarios: in a CYA move, the cops removed the brightly colored markers identifying the gun as a toy.
DeleteWe don't know do we? It is safe to assume that once the police inspected the kid and the toy gun, they knew they had just shot and killed a 12 year old boy with no gun. If one or both of them thinks so fast as to shoot a child within 1-1/2 to 2 seconds after arrival on the scene, then I'm going to assume that they were capable of thinking fast enough to remove the identifiers. Or lie about it.
In one Cleveland newspaper report, it said the cop told the child 3 times to "put the gun down". It also repeated that the shooting occurred within 1-1/2 to 2 seconds after pulling up within 10 feet of the child.
Try saying "put the gun down" three times...can you do it within 2 seconds? I can't.
6:44 "He removed the bright colored add-ons that made his BB-pistol readily identifiable as not being a firearm for a reason."
DeleteI don't deal with guns or toy guns. Do all toy guns have something to indicate it is a toy?
It is sad that a kid got killed for behaving like a kid.
But, we don't live in the world any of us grew up in and it's imperative that parents and others teach kids NEVER to play guns and shoot em up in public (I wouldn't let them play guns EVER as guns are not toys.)
That of course comes from my socioeconomic situation where kids have parents who are able to spend time with them to teach them not to play with guns--and where guns are not a everyday occurrence, or a fact of life (and death) in the neighborhood.
Like I said earlier, it's easy to play "Monday morning quarterback," and it's not easy to be a cop these days.
And it's not easy to be a kid these days either.
My heart feels for all involved.
Dear Cowardly Anonymous @ 6:44 AM and the Perverse Sycophants Defends your Palin-esque Inanity,
DeleteGo fuck yourself. Like, fer real.
Also, maybe kill yourselves.
Sincerely,
Humanity
Keep your dumbass speech to yourself 'trigmond'.
DeleteSincerely, the unbrainwashed masses.
Amid the Fergusin Grand Jury Decision, a right wing friend posted on her Facebook page about the cops shooting an unarmed WHITE teenager. As if that justifies Darren Wilson's act. Now this? It does sound like the cops are trigger-happy, especially when they see a black person acting out - or not.
ReplyDeleteI do not think that the color of your skin has to do with this at all. Very racist to think so. What I see in common is many of these shootings are in low income neighborhoods where crime is higher. This puts police on the tips of their toes, on edge. They have to be quick to respond or sometimes they are dead. I would not want to be on their shoes, nor would I want to be a criminal in one of these neighborhoods.
ReplyDeleteYou, dear person, have rectal vision being that your head must be firmly implanted up your ass. I have no doubt that had this young kid been white the outcome would have been decidedly different. To think as you do is naive to the extreme.
DeleteI agree with Johnie2xs. I have no doubt things would have been different if the child was white. Ohio is an Open Carry state so does that mean that anybody can open carry unless they are 12 year old black children and unless it's a toy gun?
Delete8:47 speaks reality. Reality is a good thing.
DeleteSorry johnny and 10:14, opinions and made up fantasies don't cut it in the real world.
Anonymous12:38 PM
Delete8:47 speaks reality.
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BULLSHIT! FAUX NEWS IS NOT "REALITY" DUDE. NEVER IS PALINS STUPID SHOW. We have a bunch of JACKBOOTED THUGS WALKING AROUND MASQUERADING AS COPS.
And YES its all about RACE and our HALF WHITE/HALF BLACK POTUS make no mistake about that.
Only in America, the police are wearing protective vests (so much $ poored into their gear) and all geared up but yet just get out of their vehicle and shoot a very young black boy. Not even investigating anything or giving the young boy a word or a chance to find out anything at all!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteAmerica deranged police!!!!!
Getting to be like Mexico, just shoot and no justice. Sit in a cell with no justice. I thought this was America.
No longer!
Getting to be like Mexico, just shoot and no justice.
Delete****
Corruption, Jackbooted thugs act like were are a "Occupied state"!
Needs to stop now!
Please continue America to protest.
ReplyDeleteAt least give these young black boys expensive gear for shooting protection!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteAmerican police are trigger happy.
A reporter in Cleveland wrote a column revealing that Tamir Rice's father has a history of domestic violence and his mother has a history of being beaten.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/tamir_rices_father_has_history.html
I guess it was too hard to blame a 12 year old victim so the reporter went for the parents. Is his point that Tamir deserved to die because his parents had a criminal records? Following that logic, then why wasn't Darren Wilson blamed for Michael Brown's killing? Darren's mother was convicted twice of fraud and theft. She bilked hundreds of thousands of dollars from her neighbors. In either conviction, she never spent one day in jail nor did she pay one penny of the money back.
Our society bends over backwards to justify cops or whites killing blacks.
Here are photos of Tamir Rice. This makes me sick.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1CASMAE_enUS568US568&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=photo%20of%20tamir%20rice
here here. (is this correct?)
DeleteTechnically @12:53, it's "Hear, hear" as derived from "Hear him, hear him" but they're frequently used interchangeably.
DeleteRegardless, consider this hear, hear squared.
Thank you @10:47 for being an empathic antidote to the casual bigotry (obviously a lone voice) that is polluting the timeline with his or her vile self-rationalization.
The orange tip of the toy gun had been removed.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of all of the other circumstances, this points out two serious problems that have happened repeatedly and not been addressed.
The orange tips can be removed, the orange colors can be painted over, etc. etc. etc. Toy guns are being modified to appear to be real guns.
Toys guns. There is no fucking reason for TOY guns.
If you're into the gun culture, then when your kid is old enough to instruct him on the proper, responsible use of a real gun, teach him, have him practice and lock the damned gun up at all other times.
No more toy guns. Ever. Forget this orange plastic shit. Just NO TOY GUNS.
That way if it looks like a gun, it's a gun.
I like the idea. Doubt you'll get anywhere
ReplyDeletewith it in this country, but I like the idea.