Saturday, January 17, 2015

Apparently people are still surprised that secular parents are raising children with good morals and values.

Courtesy of LA Times:  

So how does the raising of upstanding, moral children work without prayers at mealtimes and morality lessons at Sunday school? Quite well, it seems. 

Far from being dysfunctional, nihilistic and rudderless without the security and rectitude of religion, secular households provide a sound and solid foundation for children, according to Vern Bengston, a USC professor of gerontology and sociology. 

For nearly 40 years, Bengston has overseen the Longitudinal Study of Generations, which has become the largest study of religion and family life conducted across several generational cohorts in the United States. When Bengston noticed the growth of nonreligious Americans becoming increasingly pronounced, he decided in 2013 to add secular families to his study in an attempt to understand how family life and intergenerational influences play out among the religionless. 

He was surprised by what he found: High levels of family solidarity and emotional closeness between parents and nonreligious youth, and strong ethical standards and moral values that had been clearly articulated as they were imparted to the next generation. 

“Many nonreligious parents were more coherent and passionate about their ethical principles than some of the ‘religious' parents in our study,” Bengston told me. “The vast majority appeared to live goal-filled lives characterized by moral direction and sense of life having a purpose.” 

My own ongoing research among secular Americans — as well as that of a handful of other social scientists who have only recently turned their gaze on secular culture — confirms that nonreligious family life is replete with its own sustaining moral values and enriching ethical precepts. Chief among those: rational problem solving, personal autonomy, independence of thought, avoidance of corporal punishment, a spirit of “questioning everything” and, far above all, empathy. 

For secular people, morality is predicated on one simple principle: empathetic reciprocity, widely known as the Golden Rule. Treating other people as you would like to be treated. It is an ancient, universal ethical imperative. And it requires no supernatural beliefs. As one atheist mom who wanted to be identified only as Debbie told me: “The way we teach them what is right and what is wrong is by trying to instill a sense of empathy ... how other people feel. You know, just trying to give them that sense of what it's like to be on the other end of their actions. And I don't see any need for God in that. ...

That last part is dead on.

You know I don't talk about it much but I was married for fourteen years to the daughter of a minister.

She had a lot of weird hangups concerning nudity, alcohol consumption, and using curse words, but virtually no problem with lying, taking things that did not belong to her, or saying terrible things behind people's backs.

In the marriage it was also up to me to deal with setting guidelines for the children, and it was not uncommon to have little to no backup from my Christian wife.

However I must have done something right, because my daughter is an even bigger stickler for the rules than I am, and often functions as my moral sounding board when I stumble into a gray area.

And NO she did not get that way by way of HER Fundamentalist mother either.  Trust me on that.

39 comments:

  1. Anonymous4:09 AM

    There is one other group..the people who "SAY" they are religious, but are not. Those kids are rudderless. They may go to church a couple times a year, but they build no sense of community with the other parishioners. Then, they have a mixed message at home. We went to church, but never did the prayer over meals thing, because we were not raised with it. We lived and live, by the Golden Rule, and neither kid has ever been in any trouble. They are married, have great jobs, and lovely families. They don't need our financial help; indeed, they turn it down.
    I don't see a belief in God as a bad thing. It's when you use that to scare kids into good behavior past their belief in Santa Claus ages, and force them to believe just what you do instead of letting them live and learn. How many religious people do we know who have no empathy, no feelings for anyone outside their immediate group, and no inclinations to make the world a better place? You don't need God to be a good person. You just need to see that you're not the only one on this Earth who counts.

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  2. Anonymous4:13 AM

    I can agree that just because a person says they adhere to faith, it doesn't mean they make all moral decisions. However, millions are Christian and live Christian lives, millions of Christians accept everyone, even homosexuals. That something many democrats I meet can't admit, but it's true.

    We really have to get away from stereotyping groups of people just because they adhere to or claim to adhere to a belief system.

    There are a lot of republicans who accept marriage equality.
    There are republicans who don't.
    There are democrats who accept marriage equality.
    There are democrats who don't.
    Both parties have racist individuals.
    In many ways, the north is as prejudiced as or more prejudiced than parts of the south.

    Stereotypes need to end for the betterment of mankind.

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    1. Anonymous5:47 AM

      Get back to us when the official position of the Republican party supports gay marriage, gay adoption, protecting rather than trashing the environment, female rather than patriarchal autonomy over their reproductive organs, etc., etc. For too long the Republican, NOT the Democratic Party, you dishonest hypocrite, has been an echo chamber for the Christian right. It's so telling how averse you are to owning that reality.

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    2. Anonymous6:05 AM

      Wow! They accept everyone, "even" homosexuals? That's wonderful.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous6:29 AM

      If you really do "adhere to a belief system", be it evangelical, catholic, jewish, or muslim, then no you do not support tolerance of any of the things you mention, by definition. Those are these religions' official positions. If however, you do parctice according to the teachings of christ, not adhering to any particular religion, then you possibly may do be tolerant and moral.

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    4. Anonymous8:41 AM

      I'm sure with your fancy private school degree you understand a little thing called "probability" (although with a theater arts degree, who knows?).

      Sure, there may be some republicans who are pro-choice, anti-racism and bigotry, feminist, etc.. But the fact of the matter is that the majority of Republicans are not those things and the fact that the Republican republicans and leadership works against those things.

      If you are pro-equal rights and anti-racism and bigotry and you still vote republican, what the hell is wrong with you?

      Delete
  3. Come on4:14 AM

    Just saw that girl who lived with the Palins for half of 2013, their Democrat friend from down here in the SW, is working to move back up there with them for this coming summer.

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    1. Anonymous5:54 AM

      That would be "Democratic," not "Democrat," when used as a modifier. Right-wingers and Fox News of course always make sure to use the disrespectful latter term. Good to know the Palins' followers disrespect their friends.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous6:32 AM

      Seriously? There have been countless posts on that family in the last couple of days and you chose to pollute this one. Does every single post have to have a palin related comment?

      Delete
    3. Anonymous8:36 AM

      You just saw on her FB page or some other place you're stalking? Does the poor girl know she has someone reporting on her moves to us here?

      Why are you so fascinated with this girl? Do you think we should be impressed that someone actually likes the Palins? Or are you just extremely jealous of her?

      (You aren't "down here in the SW," dear, you are in Florida).

      Delete
    4. Anonymous9:46 AM

      You know who says, "Democrat" when it should be "Democratic," and has been corrected many times and still doesn't get it?

      Hi Sarah!

      Delete
  4. Leland4:45 AM

    You do realize, I hope, that the religious people will say the same things the Repubes do about information they don't like? You know, Oh this is only one study. Or, they don't have enough base. Or, It was swayed by the slants of the questions. Or,...

    They HAVE to. Otherwise their entire life structure is destroyed. Not to mention their argument AGAINST secularism!

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  5. Scripture, used sparingly, has value; overdone or misused, ah, not so much. Like anything else powerful.

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    1. Anonymous5:56 AM

      Which scripture? The imaginary NT? Or the imaginary OT?

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    2. All of them. Any of them. The Vedas particularly have some teal mindbending ccuriosities in 'em.

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    3. Anonymous7:52 PM

      How many Americans have ever even heard of the Vedas?

      Delete
  6. Caroll Thompson5:07 AM

    I have had the pleasure of knowing a lot of young ones coming up without the 'benefit' of any religious indoctrination. Less than 25% of the folks in Maine go to church. And I have to say the young ones I have met are nothing short of awesome. They have such integrity that I have not seen in previous generations.

    Now if we can only get them all to vote..................

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    1. Anonymous6:09 PM

      ayuh...we folks in NH are not God-fearing either. We live and let live. I think we were in a poll as the least religious state in the nation. I know that 30% of our students in the public schools have no religious affiliation.

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  7. Anonymous5:08 AM

    You do not need religion or a church to teach your children honesty, integrity, morality or empathy.

    I was able to raise my children without any religion and they learned these concepts and now live by them.

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    1. Anonymous5:32 AM

      I raised 2 children without any religion and they also learned to be honest, moral, and empathetic adults.. I once had a very religious friend ( Church of Christ) marvel that my kids turned out so well since they weren't Christian.

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  8. Anonymous6:42 AM

    Not indoctrinating my kids into a religion is one of the greatest gifts my husband and I have given them.
    They are critical thinkers, good kind people and very intelligent. They have a strong moral compass from growing up in our house - do good things not bad things. There ya go.

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  9. Anonymous7:28 AM

    My religious upbringing had a great deal of emphasis on controlling women. Reconciling that with a supposedly moral message made my parents/teachers twist themselves into a logical morass. Best training I had was sorting out why they could not perceive their own immorality.

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  10. Grew up early in the church. When I looked around, at the age of 12, and saw that the married Episcopal priest was boinking his secretary, who was trash talking most of the congregation, who were doing the same to most of their fellow parish members.....I had one of those get out and don't look back moments and never again stepped into a house of worship again. And u know what? My parents totally accepted my decision and respected the fact that I made this on my own.

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    1. Leland2:04 AM

      You know what, tailher1? I had a somewhat similar experience in an Episcopal church..

      When I was 16 (admittedly underage!) I, once in a while, liked to go to the local pool hall, have a cold beer and play a few games. When the "adults" had their get-together after the service one Sunday (and while their children were being brainwashed) they dragged me "onto the carpet". They chewed me up one side and down the other for my sacrilegious behavior and "dangerous ways".

      I got very angry. When they finally stopped, I had my turn. I exposed every single one of the Payton Place actions the congregation was having, including all the marital affairs and other actions going on - AND the minister's wife having an affair with another of the wives! (This was in the 60's when things like that were DEFINITELY frowned upon.)

      It was at that point I left the church completely. My father almost killed me by beating me to death, but I simply refused to return! I had had enough beatings and the "chewing out" I got from such a deplorable, hypocritical congregation was the final straw.

      I, too, "...had one of those get out and don't look back moments and never again stepped into a house of worship again."

      Delete
  11. Anonymous11:06 AM

    I chime in occasionally on posts like this...and please don't bash me. I'm a faithful reader of your blog who is a pastor's wife. Just a request to please remember that all of 'us' are not like 'them'. I do not teach my children through fear or what I would consider indoctrination. We teach and model to our kids our beliefs, yes. But that's what parents do, overtly or not, about all facets of life. We are part of a domination that is pretty liberal and we see Jesus' teachings as social justice rather than something to use to condemn others to hell. We encourage our kids to think for themselves, believe in evolution, marriage equality and definitely believe in the separate of church and state. There are 'good' Christians. I promise. :o)

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    1. Anonymous4:49 PM

      If you believe in evolution and teaching your children to have values outside of your religion, I must ask you what benefit is religion to you and your family? You seem to be living a life free of religion except for the fact that you believe in Jesus and his teachings, however, morality and ethics lessons were around for many eons prior to Jesus being born so why cleave to his teachings when his behavior was modeled after a much more ancient concept. Jesus wasn't the first human to "turn the other cheek" or live by the "golden rule", in fact the golden rule is the most ancient of concepts and predates any organized religion by many millennia.

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    2. Anonymous5:47 PM

      Evolution is not outside my religion. Neither is believing in marriage equality...plus it's a civil issue (you know, that whole separation of church and state). I am most definitely not living a life free of religion. You're making quite a leap based on two items I mentioned.

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    3. Anonymous7:50 PM

      What are you doing to counter the bad ones? Because I'm so tired of Christians like you who think they're special because THEY'RE not bigots like those OTHER Christians, and they make anonymous posts on blogs to prove it. Real impressive.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous11:28 PM

      I'm trying to live as well as I can, to show by my actions and my love what Christ's teachings really are about. I don't attack others who live or think differently. I don't think I'm special but I do think I make a positive difference where I live. I just wanted to point out that there are plenty of Christians who do the best they can to live their faith in an authentic and loving way, in opposition to how the fear mongers function. I am anonymous because I choose to be, just as you chose to post as anonymous.

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    5. Leland2:12 AM

      5:47, I have to ask you this: Where did get the idea that 4:49 was saying you lived a life free of religion? As I read his comment, he is asking you what good religion did for you since what you were claiming you were teaching and living was an existing moral structure long before Jesus came around.

      And the comment from 7:50 is also a valid question: what DO you do to counter the fanatics who do NOT teach/live as you?

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    6. Anonymous6:15 PM

      Leland, 4:49 says " You seem to be living a life free of religion except for the fact that you believe in Jesus and his teachings..." so that's where I got that. Yes, it says seem and except but I answered based on the fact that this person implied my two examples (evolution and marriage equality) put me outside religion. Perhaps I was too sensitive, but it did feel like that was the point 4:49 was making.

      I guess I wasn't clear in my second answer about countering the fanatics. I don't DO anything beyond living as well as I can as an example of what I believe a follower of Jesus should be...a model (so to speak) rather than an overt or vocal counterpoint to the 'bad ones'. I'm not someone who confronts or debates. I'm a one-on-one kind of gal, who might discuss quietly, privately. Hence the anonymous.

      I'm not sure it's a valid question...it's the same idea to ask: what do you or what does 7:50 do to counter anyone who does/has the 180* different opinion/behavior/action to you that you find repugnant? Why single me out to fix 'bad ones' that are opposite to my beliefs? Aren't we all responsible to try to reach out to each other in our own small ways? Isn't that the social contract we are part of, willingly or not?

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  12. You might like reading this, Gryphen:

    http://www.salon.com/2015/01/14/bill_maher_its_not_okay_to_make_decisions_based_on_myth/

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  13. Anonymous2:15 PM

    I saw this in the comments section of a Palin related article. Apparently Trig can't say "up", but he's mastered a certain two syllable word. Must hear it a lot in reference to his "mother's" mythology. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWaC4IpARTs

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    1. Anonymous8:14 AM

      Go post this comment on a palin post. Not here.

      Delete
  14. Anita Winecooler4:24 PM

    We chose to raise our kids secularly, yeah it worked out better than I imagined, but what was most upsetting was societies views of them. If you're going to do good, what's the use if you don't get a carrot or brownie points? My husband used to say "You do things because they're the right thing to do, and don't worry what others say or feel, they need no explanation why.
    So far, so good.

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    1. Anonymous4:45 PM

      I was raised Atheist and was always proud to tell others, if they brought religion into the discussion, that I am an Atheist, my parents are Atheists and my grandparents on my Father's side. I wasn't ashamed, in fact I was proud. It never really caused me any trouble as it was known in my small town that our family did not attend church and my parents were very involved in charitable organizations, plus they were active in our local country club and donated a lot of money to expand the pool and fix the tennis courts. No biggie, I just felt sorry for my friends that couldn't explain to me why they had to go to church each Sunday and why their parents paid money to the church when that money could have been used to actually help people.

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  15. Anonymous6:05 PM

    I would be willing to bet that if Jesus were real and alive today, he would raise his children the exact same way.

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  16. Anonymous6:06 PM

    My son was kicked out of scouts for not having a religion. That was a sad day at our house, but he grew from the experience, his first w/discrimination.

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