Tuesday, December 20, 2011

So you think that Obama's decision to not to veto the National Defense Authorization Act means he can throw Americans into military detention.? Well it doesn't.

Courtesy of Mother Jones:

Following the Obama administration's withdrawal of its veto threat Wednesday, the National Defense Authorization Act passed both houses of Congress easily and is now headed to the president's desk. 

So what exactly does the bill do? It says that the president has to hold a foreign Al Qaeda suspect captured on US soil in military detention—except it leaves enough procedural loopholes that someone like convicted underwear bomber and Nigerian citizen Umar Abdulmutallab could actually go from capture to trial without ever being held by the military. It does not, contrary to what many media outlets have reported, authorize the president to indefinitely detain without trial an American citizen suspected of terrorism who is captured in the US. A last minute compromise amendment adopted in the Senate, whose language was retained in the final bill, leaves it up to the courts to decide if the president has that power, should a future president try to exercise it. But if a future president does try to assert the authority to detain an American citizen without charge or trial, it won't be based on the authority in this bill. 

So it's simply not true, as the Guardian wrote yesterday, that the the bill "allows the military to indefinitely detain without trial American terrorism suspects arrested on US soil who could then be shipped to Guantánamo Bay." When the New York Times editorial page writes that the bill would "strip the F.B.I., federal prosecutors and federal courts of all or most of their power to arrest and prosecute terrorists and hand it off to the military," or that the "legislation could also give future presidents the authority to throw American citizens into prison for life without charges or a trial," they're simply wrong. 

The language in the bill that relates to the detention authority as far as US citizens and permanent residents are concerned is, "Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States."

What it does do is write into law an assumed role for the military in domestic counterterrorism that did not exist before. In my opinion that is a slippery slope, and I am not at all happy that this bill is going to pass.

But it does not change the existing laws in this country as they pertain to American citizens, or legal aliens visiting this country. I am not sure why the President decided to let this pass without a fight, though in the past we have seen what has appeared to be a defeat turn out to be a victory, but in doing so he did not put any American protestors in danger of military incarceration. That is simply false.

You can read more about this at Please Cut the Crap.

20 comments:

  1. this is SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

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  2. Not What You Want To Hear4:36 AM

    Glenn Greenwald of Salon has written a very thoughtful critique of this bill that does a good job of explaining how the updates are in such broad terms, that slippery slope could be much shorter than you think.

    I suggest reading it to balance out the link you refer us to, Gryphen - if you have a few moments at some point. http://www.salon.com/2011/12/16/three_myths_about_the_detention_bill/

    I also find it troubling some of us would apparently be ok with the Act allowing military detention to anyone, just as long as it wasn't an American. Do we really have that much doubt in our criminal justice system and its ability to gather evidence and capably try terrorist suspects? I mean, I know it has it's faults, but regularly screwing up the trials of suspected terrorists doesn't seem to be one of them.

    A right to trial has always been such a quintessential facet of our country, one that supposedly distinguished us from many others. To eliminate it, even for people who may be overwhelmingly guilty, really tells me the terrorists won so much on September 11th.

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  3. I believe he let it pass because it will eventually be overturned by the SCOTUS. Gotta pick your battles.

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  4. Anonymous4:48 AM

    Questions for Sarah Palin since we all know she reads the comments and posts here:
    Where's Tri-G's birth certificate?
    Where's Willow?? Prego again?
    Why haven't we seen holiday photos of you with your grandson Trig?

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  5. Thanks for directing me to Mother Jones and Cut the Crap. Those around me think that Obama is throwing away all his principles to sign this bill. I haven't believed he would do that. Now I have some facts on my side.

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  6. Anonymous6:39 AM

    Watch out if you have dark hair. ICE will come and get you. If the APD can jerk Shailey Tripp around for her stuff after a judge's order, what makes you think everything is going to go as planned? http://m.npr.org/news/U.S./143996530

    nswfm

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  7. Please Cut The Crap is well worth bookmarking and reTweeting:

    http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/

    Take THAT, Jane Hamsher and Dylan Ratigan!

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  8. Anonymous8:07 AM

    Your love for EVERYTHING "Obama" has blinded you! This bill is one more step toward a deepening fascism in America as observed in the treatment of peaceful OWS demonstrators by law enforcement.

    Yes, I support our president, but I refuse to do it blindly!

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  9. Anonymous8:17 AM

    Benjamin Wittes at the Lawfare Blog has written a terrific explainer on what the NDAA does, and does not do.

    Key point rebutting the contention that the indefinite detention provisions apply to United States citizens:

    http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/confused-about-ndaa-and-detention-provision

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  10. Anonymous8:41 AM

    Wow. That makes me feel SO much better. Not.

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  11. To "Not What You Want To Hear"...

    As Milt Shook at PCTC blog pointed out in http://bit.ly/sNkZDI

    ...FIRST we have to get past the anarchist-fueled GOP majority in the House and elect some sane moderate Repub... -- OK, there don't seem to be any more of them, scratch that -- elect some sane moderate Democrats and some progressive Democrats who aren't ruled by rigid "principles" like the professional-left complainers -- and the Teaparty.

    Then give them a mandate to right the wrongs both GOP and certain Dems in both the House and Senate have perpetrated the past 3 years, change the Senate rules to prevent gridlock, "secret holds", etc. and hopefully look forward to an honest progressive SCOTUS nominee or two (after Clarence Thomas is impeached), and the return of a true "rule of law".

    It would help a lot to have the "professional left" not reduce themselves to the tactics Fox News uses, i.e., lies, in order to sway public opinion. There are some real whackos writing at FireDogLake.

    I'm not necessarily indicting Glenn Greenwald, whom you referred to re: his Salon commentary -- but I noticed he ignored the very things Milt Shook pointed out.

    "Elite privilege" will probably never go away, so railing against it as Glenn Greenwald does is futile. He and others should spend their energy making "elite privilege" work for everybody == like electing and appointing principled philanthropic elites to positions of responsibility. And not elect or re-elect elites who reflect the current dictatorial greedy ruthless "class warfare" attitudes.

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  12. And another empty veto threat hits the fan.

    Ask any dog trainer what it means to constantly back down. Or a Mother.

    When you say "If you do this, this will happen" and it doesn't you are teaching the exact opposite. You are teaching that no matter what you say, you will not follow through. And you are teaching that no matter what happens, there are NO consequences.

    This is BAD. It is WEAK.

    I would rather vote for Michelle Obama since it's obvious she must be the disciplinarian in the family. I notice she is also in charge of the dog.

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  13. Not What You Want To Hear11:23 AM

    KaJo, I've about given up that the problems can be solved via the political system. We thought we had elected a pretty solid majority of progressives and a progressive President in the last election. If anything, we've lost even more rights since then.

    That's something I believe the OWS movement gets, as well. For years and years and years, progressives have tried to work with the political system. Well, it's not working. (It will probably take about thirty more years for the Tea Party to figure that out, too, but eventually they will. As usual, the progressives will have taken care of all the hard work before they catch up.)

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  14. Anonymous2:23 PM

    @Not What you Want to Hear: You did not address Kajo's points. Why, please?

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  15. Anonymous5:52 PM

    4:36, I was going to post the Glenn Greenwald link, then I saw you already had.

    Greenwald is far more knowledgeable about this issue than the link Gryphen posted.

    Oh and KaJo? Would you please document your accusations?

    Nothing is more disheartening then coming here and reading the same kind of excuses for Obama, simply because he's a Democrat, that were made for Bush by Freepers.

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  16. Not What You Want To Hear5:55 PM

    Anon 2:23 "@Not What you Want to Hear: You did not address Kajo's points. Why, please?"

    I thought I did, except for the reference to Glenn Greenwald. The Cut the Crap article did raise some language from the bill that Glenn's did not, but I'm not convinced that negates Glenn's over-riding argument that the language he (Greenwald) quoted is in such broad terms, it makes that whole part of the bill dangerous.

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  17. Anonymous5:58 PM

    Obama has, in effect, cornered Boehner and exposed him for his poor leadership of the Republican Party, as speaker of the house, this falls squarely on his shoulders, not the President's. It's a brilliant move, even though it may cost us taxpayers in the end, the blame cannot be laid at the democrats nor Obama's feet.

    Kajo has made the most saliant argument, and after reading it, it's perfectly clear that the POTUS knows exactly what he's doing. Don't underestimate the american people, we see who's responsible, and it will have detrimental repercussions for the GOP.

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  18. Pursang7:45 PM

    Sorry KaJo but you're making quite a lot of assumptions in your rebuttal. Clarence Thomas impeached? Silent Clarence, Roberts, and Scalia all deserve to be impeached but do you see it ever happening, I don't. The Senate had a chance to do what you said as they vote for the rules the operate under at the start of each session. They could have easily done away with silent filibusters, secret holds, etc.. Harry Reid being Harry Reid didn't do it and so the House of Lords continues to be dysfunctional.

    The President had a chance to appoint progressives to the Supreme Court and instead promoted two middle of the road pragmatists. Perhaps because he didn't see anyone else gaining acceptance but it would have been nice to see him try and appoint someone more progressive.

    The Supreme Court is going to be 5-4 for quite a while given how young the bench conservatives are at the moment. Trusting them to do anything for the good of the country is a crap shoot and something I wouldn't bet on. We'll see how the treat the Affordable Health Care Act when they hear the arguments next year, should be enlightening. Wonder if Ginny Thomas will get paid extra to sway Clarence, that is if he needs swayed to be corrupt.

    The fact is that our freedoms are taken away a little bit at a time and a Democratic President should not give one inch when it comes to civil liberties and human rights. I believe that President Obama, with allowing a bill with such vague language on many issues, is continuing the pursuit that Presidents since Reagan have all gone after; the strengthening of the Executive to the point where Congress and the Supreme Court have no real power over the office, the Dictatorial Presidency.

    I'm not going to be a cheerleader for the President on this one, it does more harm than good. But that's my opinion and all Americans have a right to theirs.

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  19. hauksdottir11:13 PM

    Sorry, Gryphen. Bush paved the way towards feudalism, and Obama is following it, while deepening the ruts.

    American citizens have given up too many rights in the name of security. OWS and the 99% movement are being brutally suppressed, using military weapons (heat-rays, pain-rays, acoustics, military-grade pepper-spray, etc.) because any dissent from the people is dangerous to the powerful.

    Obama ordered the assassination, without trial, of an American citizen... and this was done. The power of kings. And "patriotic" Americans clapped their hands.

    The so-called "Patriot Act" has been expanded upon. Bit. By. Slippery. Bit. As if we won't notice.

    Apparently Hungary has just had a "Constitutional Coup". It is instructive reading. Starting point here, then follow the links:

    http://www.americablog.com/2011/12/hungarywhat-constitutional-coup-looks.html

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  20. Not What You Want to Hear4:06 AM

    There is language in this updated bill that implies the section we are talking about shouldn't be construed as over-riding existing laws. That's a point that defenders of the legislation have referenced, including, I believe, the Cut the Crap writer.

    However, there is already an argument about just what the existing laws are. Yeah, you would think the Constitution would make it clear, but apparently both the Bush and the Obama administrations have argued otherwise.

    This article explains the above in more depth: http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/12/did-congress-just-endorse-rendition-americans

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