Courtesy of Frank Schaeffer's blog:
Let's be blunt: science has rendered a literal interpretation of any scripture, be it Bible, Koran, whatever, as impossible. For many religious people this means that they have sought out deeper meanings in a spirituality that depends on a more intuitive sense of meaning and purpose than a slavish attempt to follow texts that have been simply disproven.
But for another group - the fundamentalists of all religions - modernity has been "answered" by opting out or attacking facts as lies.
Enter Madrassas of all kinds, literal -- as in Pakistan -- or virtual -- as in the Evangelical home school movement and private school movement. Enter Evangelical TV and radio and publishing industry and mega churches as personality cults. Enter the "conservative" Roman Catholic bishops cut off from their own far more tolerant (and liberal) flocks.
The rise of the religious right within religion is designed intentionally to isolate, indoctrinate and "protect" from challenging ideas. Fundamentalist leaders, be they conservative bishops or evangelical leaders, do this because actual true information is no longer helpful to the fundamentalist religious cause. So that cause becomes about controlling the minds of the faithful by cutting them off from other opinions.
Having circled the wagons and gone inward the American evangelical community and conservative Roman Catholics, now speak their own language have their own culture and they despise and fear the country they dwell in as virtual strangers. This is a self-imposed exile.
But when general elections come along the evangelical community, Roman Catholic bishops' et al, like some hibernating creature, are forced (as it were) from their cave. For a brief moment they must interact with the larger world in the full light of day.
This is very powerful stuff from a guy who may understand the Evangelical community better than just about anybody else in the country.
And he certainly does not sugar coat his message to make it more palatable to certain religious groups, or to avoid ruffling any feathers either.
Gotta respect that in my opinion.
Better question: How can one believe anything a politico in DC says? There's been an incredible amount of manipulation of the media (thanks Axelrod for being a royal douche) and specific industries.
ReplyDeleteYet progressives are too ignorant to realize they're being manipulated. Sad for the country. All one has to do is look at the facts and why things happened. (and when it all started)
That means ignoring network news.
please, just go away......
DeleteAnd this has to do with the post . . . . how?
DeleteI swear, sitting on this blog with your early a.m. coffee and vitriol
going on about bullshit you know nothing about would be worthwhile if you brought it to an art form. Sadly--no. Same old crap.
And by the way, saying David Axelrod's name in no way confuses anyone that you are on your bad Obama whine. Tiresome and boring.
************
Frank Schaeffer calls it exactly as it is. Growing up with a Christian
Right founder must have been something else. And to finally see the inherent rot in the movement must have been a revelation.
lol...you must be one of the fools this piece refers to.
DeleteSarah Palin psychobabble - plug your ears and close your eyes - before you turn into stone!
DeletePlease share your 'facts. ' But if your 'knowledge' is via Fox or Rush, you have no facts. Just propaganda.
DeleteYes we get it Sarah, you hate David Axelrod for some reason. Look.. you lost the election badly. Its been almost 4 years. Time to get over it and stop obsessing. America doesn't want or need you and we've already decided you simply aren't good enough for us. End of story.
DeleteThere ain't no "better question". Go away
DeleteHi Sarah! You always give yourself away by your word choices which are always just a tiny ding off plan. You shoulda added "inside baseball" here so we'd be sure it's you and not Bristol.
DeleteOh wait--she can't actually spell, so it must be you.
Hi, idiot Sarah! Man you really have a thing about Axelrod, don't you? It's nice that you showed up here right away to perfectly illustrate the point of the featured article! You seem to blame Axelrod for the mess in D.C. , and supposedly all the things you don't like about the media are his fault as well! Apparently you are convinced that D.C. was perfect before President Obama came in, yet you have the nerve to call US ignorant, then you tell us to basically ignore any media that tells us anything that conflicts with your moronic worldview! Bless your heart, you really are almost too stupid to breathe, aren't you? It would almost be cute if you weren't such a bitch!
DeleteSarah, Sarah, Sarah. Did you know David Axelrod has a special needs child. No, you probably don't as most people don't go around parading their children like props to get sympathy. Most politicians keep their children's lives private. Are you trying to challenge him to a duel of your special children? You are one sick person to take your hatred out on anyone in the Presidents office and blame them for your miserable loss. Please get over it and do something worthwhile with your life. You don't see the John Kerry family out in your face because he lost the election, do you. He is quietly try to do his job in the senate. I don't even know if he has children. We did meet his wife, but not on a daily basis putting down President Bush. Get a clue, will you?
DeleteYou wouldn't know a fact if you tripped over it.
DeleteBoy, I know that garbage only too well.
ReplyDeleteWhen challenged with all the logic holes, folks like my mother would cry, “You’ve got to have faith!” And if you didn’t have “faith” you were going to hell. Check your brains at the church house door.
My mother wasn’t stupid, but she was creatively challenged, shall we say. And I think that goes for most of those eager followers.
Thanks for keeping this topic alive, as well as the Palin stuff.
Me, too. I have a good friend who I love to pieces, but she also subscribes to this ultra Xtian dogma. She was raised that way and has very little desire to break out of it. I guess it makes her feel "safe."
DeleteShe and her husband loved to spend big bucks that they didn't have--then she'd explain to me how she'd depended on the Lord to find a way to pay their extra bills. This went on for a few years and I gave up talking sense to her. Now they've lost their home and are declaring bankruptcy. They (and their kids) are back living with her elderly mom, who was the start of this insanity to begin with. The good ol' passive aggressive Xtian guilt that Mom throws at her daughter is something else. Very sad.
I have BIG respect for Mr. Schaffer for having the guts to break out of this cult and speak the truth.
For those of us who were damaged by the extremist Christian dribble and now we're in religious recovery, my hat is off to Mr. Schaffer! Christianity is man made--and Prevo is a prime example--and I just don't believe in what the new Christian right says. It is now a cult! They are all drinking the cup of juice that Jim Jones gave to his followers!
DeleteOne more comment if I may... this guy is really good!
ReplyDeleteDo you know what is weird about him? He's Eastern Orthodox and the church is FULL of right wing, paint chip eating, superstitious nut jobs. It's not how the church was 20 years ago, but it is now. I'm sure this guy has been watching it grow even from his own church. I'm Eastern Orthodox and those peeps in general are as much whack jobs as the other Faux Gnus watchers!
DeleteI'm Eastern Orthodox too and been very damaged by the church, which is now part of this cult!
DeleteThis needs to be spread farw and wide - people have to wake up to the fact that under the guise of religious freedom these right wing nuts are striving to eliminate freedom for the rest of us. My husband just rolls his eyes at my concern and says not to worry they are too crazy to do any harm -- and this is from a very politically aware, intelligent high school teacher. Most folks (moderates, etc.) don't see the underlying motivation and long term thinking of these right wing groups - the money backers and power brokers have been working decades to get folks in positions of power and will pounce when they can - they use their base to get out the vote and drive the political conversation to far right -- and little by little erode the rights and freedoms for others. I just can't seem to find the facts and examples that will convince my husband that MORE needs to be done to stop these folks and get the truth out about them - he just thinks I've gone off the conspiracy deep end and could be a candidate for a tin foil hat.
ReplyDeleteWell no matter what - I do try to educate others I just don't discuss it as much with hubby.
Keep up the good work G. - I stop by here several times a day and proud to be a "tin-foil hat" wearer on a quest to reveal the truth about Palin and all rightwing nut cases.
I used to think there wasn't much to worry about with the religious extremists, too - that they are a very tiny minor vocal group - then I realized - hey, real time - there are now women who cannot obtain birth control because of the religious beliefs of these extremists, there are women today, right now, in several states who are not allowed to end an unwanted pregnancy unless she submits to an unnecessary and unrelated medical procedure and sexist religious coercion - because of someone else's extremist religious views.
DeleteThe unconstitutional drug testing of the unemployed and welfare clients is based on pure unadulterated religious extremist "morality"! Planned Parenthood has been significantly weakened - and its ability to provide needed services is under attack - because of religious extremism. How minor and fringe is the Religious Right, hmmmmn?
There are many more examples, today, real-time, where people's Constitutional rights are being violated because of someone else's extremist religious beliefs that have been allowed to cross the line - that "inviolable" quintessential American protection called the Separation of Church and State, it's under attack, quite successfully, too, when it comes to women's rights!
I won't even mention the teaching Creationism as fact or the demonizing "science" and "education" as the tools of Satan. I cannot believe how far this nightmare has been able to advance, here in America. We have been too complacent, too naive - and failed to recognize the danger right in clear sight!
I appreciate Frank Schaeffer's insight as a former insider of the Christian Fundamentalists world, and his efforts to expose it for what is really is - a power grab, motivated by money, and corrupt to its very soul! And the thing is - the power brokers behind this power grab are not "religious"
at all, like Ted Haggard's Rent-boy - it's all a facade, those grabbing for power and ever more money just find the ignorant religious right so easy and so convenient to use, as tools, to get what they want - f--k GOD and Jeebus! Like Sarah Palin, fake religious charlatan, they don't go to Church either - except to pick up the collection plate filled up by the ignorant faithful!
To anonymous with the high school teacher hubby:
DeleteI could give you a whole list of books that would give you lots of great facts, but the one I think best addresses your concerns is Conservatives Without Conscience by John W. Dean. A smallish book, quick and easy to read, it is loaded with facts from someone who there, just as Frank Schaeffer was, except Dean was a politico insider. You'll get all the ammunition you need from this book.
Bravo!!!
DeleteGuess I should have posted this link here instead of the next one - forgive me - the Washington Post!:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/guest-voices/post/rick-santorum-says-liberal-education-leads-to-loss-of-faith-atheists-rejoice/2012/02/28/gIQAya3MgR_blog.html?tid=pm_national_pop
Media: Protecting Obama since 2004.
ReplyDeleteI’ll have longer thoughts on Game Change, HBO’s adaptation of John Heilmann and Mark Halperin’s 2008 campaign book, closer to the movie’s air date. But one thing that struck me as strange about the movie was that it focuses entirely on John McCain and Sarah Palin, a story that’s both been done to death and is essentially irrelevant: Palin is a PR phenomenon and McCain will never be president. They’ve both returned from whence they came. By contrast, the story of how President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton regarded each other in the buildup to and during the 2008 campaign, and how they came to be partners rather than enemies, is both directly relevant to ongoing events and a much richer story than that of John McCain’s taking a flyer on his VP selection.
I can't wait 'til GinaM tears you a new asshole! I know you can't be Sarah, Todd, or one of the kids - because they can't write anything but word salad and psychobabble, however, you seem to be, nonetheless - just as STUPID as them. Must be a new hire - big day ahead of you, eh, making up lots of identities, visiting all the blogs now spreading the truth about the Palin - she'll have to pay you overtime!
DeleteThe book AND the movie are specifically about McCain/Palin campaign of horrors, fool. Your lies about the President do nothing to alter the course of the outing of the real Sarah Palin - her stupidity, her rabid, uneducated, violent followers, the Palin children she betrayed and neglected, her Pimp husband - no, the truth is here, at long last! Have a good day at work, try not to be so obviously the same "supporter" in your comments!
No it's not. The book is mostly about SOS Clinton and President Obama. The MOVIE is about McCain/Palin (an excerpt out of the book).
DeleteWhen are people on this blog going to respect other's opinion that don't subscribe to groupthink. Sure, the theme of this blog is Palin bashing, but geez . . . a difference of opinion makes your thinking exactly like a fundie. Your thought process is the only (and right) process.
Give it a break already!!!
P.S. And although the previous poster makes a good point about the book, movies that do well usually focus on the most exciting parts of the book. Event though the contest between SOS Clinton and President Obama was exhaustive, the path of the McCain/Palin ticket was much more of a thrill ride. Hence, the huge difference between the BOOK Game Change vs. the MOVIE Game Change.
OH I quite agree: that a movie based on Heilman and Halerpin's book about John McCain and Sarah Palin focused entirely on John McCain and Sarah Palin but didn't include anything about Clinton or Obama is nothing short of journalistic malfeasance.
DeleteI actually just finished the book (WELL worth the read, everybody!) I was actually surprised at how little of it had Sarah Palin involved: she starts on page 351 of a 436 page book. The juicy bits that we have heard about/seen in promos are there, but in many ways it felt to me like they held back a lot. A couple tiny mentions of babygate, a bit more about what a doof she was/is, a bit about AIP. It left me wondering if these authors know much more than they were willing to include, but they didn't want their book marginalized (ala McGuinness' and Dunn's books). I guess that strategy worked since the movie got made. The intricacies of the primary and general campaign on the Dem side were most interesting and probably won't get as much (or any) play in the movie. Stuff I didn't know about and I watch pretty closely. In a nutshell: our president is one cool customer!
DeleteLuddy
AnonymousFeb 29, 2012 06:24 AM
DeleteMedia: Protecting Obama since 2004.
’ll have longer thoughts on Game Change, HBO’s adaptation of John Heilmann and Mark Halperin’s 2008 campaign book, closer to the movie’s air date.
Okay...so we'll see you when the movie comes out...until then...I suggest you crawl back to the Asylum that you escaped from...."Crazies4Palin".
You see we might have listened to what you had to say but because you just had to show your ASS first with your pathetic repub talking point...."Media: Protecting Obama since 2004"...you lost any kind of possible respect you might have received for your views. Fuck off troll.
What is it about this topic that threatens you so? Changing the subject isn't going to keep people from thinking about it and discussing it, so give it up.
DeleteTo be fair, the book "Game Change" followed both the Repub and Democratic campaigns. Bringing Palin onto the GOP ticket really WAS the Game Change, but not in the way McCain and Schmidt hoped it would be.
DeleteBTW, if the movie had followed the entire book, it would be several hours long! It was smart of HBO to focus only on the McCain/Palin part, simply to show how the Repub campaign went off the rails so badly when Palin started revealing her stunning lack of knowledge about the federal government, about foreign policy, about so, so many things.....especially her distinct unreadiness to be VP for a President who'd had a few bouts with cancer. Oh my!
Agreed, the book contained little of Palin. We were only just learning of her devastating lack of knowledge, about everything.
DeleteThe story of Pres. Obama and SOS Clinton is fascinating ~ like two boxers sizing each other up, one wins one round, next round goes to the other one, all the way to the end.
Yes, it it's a fascinating story.
However, the story of how and WHY Sarah was chosen by the McCain campaign is ESSENTIAL to understanding the frightening and dangerous path those "in power" will take to push their evil agenda on the rest of US.
You are a fucking moron.
Delete"Palin is a PR phenomenon..."
Would this be the same "PR Phenomenon" whose recent obsequious paean "The Undefeated" drew but a couple of thousand people to see it NATIONALLY?
Would this be the same "PR Phenomenon" whose own reality show hemorrhaged viewers so badly that it was cancelled?
Would this be the same "PR Phenomenon" whose endorsement for political office equates to a kiss of death?
Seriously, it may sound like a rhetorical question, but -
HOW FUCKING STUPID ARE YOU?
Sarah Palin is a narcissistic, vindictive, grifting, lying, arrogant, semi-literate ignoramus. For god's sake, the woman could not distinguish between North and South Korea. (Here's a hint, Sarah: one is in the North and the other is not.) She thought that Africa was a country. She had no idea why WW II was fought. She argued that Paul Revere set out to warn the British! She is a MORON!
Anybody who praises her as having ANY legitimacy has simply confirmed their own status as being a peawit themselves.
There is no way to deflect attention away from the cinematic version of "Game Change" and the devastating effect that it will have on the legacy of Sarah Palin, and on John McCain for foisting that ignorant simpleton onto the national political stage.
Man, you said it and I congratulate you! Good job! In fact, great job!
DeleteExcellent analysis, really explains what we're seeing. I imagine that Mr. Schaeffer sees a much more sinister and pervasive threat to the democratic process than he is able to communicate in the tidy soundbites he's allowed when he appears on TV. He seems to convey some urgency, and I believe this comes from his thorough understanding of not just the development over time of these trends, but also their historical entrenchment in the policy positions, cultural references and funding of campaigns.
ReplyDeleteWish he had a daily show - I'd watch and learn.
Mr. Schaeffer has been a guest on Rachel several times. He is such an eloquent speaker; it's truly chilling to hear what he has to say.
DeleteThanks, G, for posting about this.
Yes, he is marvelous. But, I think he dilutes what he says by hawking his book several times in each interview.
DeleteThe burgeoning alignment between evangelical Protestants and certain elements of the Catholic church is something that I (a former Southern Baptist) never saw coming! Kudos to those who are beginning to analyze it. You almost can't do this unless you come from a conservative religious background. National media have misunderstood these groups for so long.
ReplyDeleteThis is so true. As a [wish I were still] Catholic, it began about 40 years ago when Rome began the attack on what was called "liberation theology". That was the version of Catholicism I was taught: reasoned thought combined with radical action in defense of the powerless. The bland, conservative, anonymous version of "christian life" now preached at Sunday Mass appeals only to those who don't read or think.
DeleteThe extreme fundamentalist Catholics will get into bed (literally in some cases) with who ever they think will increase their wealth, influence, and agenda. It could be Mormons, Jews, Baptists, whatever. If they think it will bring profits they'll do anything with them. This is not new behavior from them by any means (see WWII and the Nazi pals they had). Even as early as the first break from Rome, the Catholics sucked protestant dick (see Henry VIII and the Holy Roman Emperor fighting Francis I of France for European superiority.) Hell the start of the world wide catholic church was nothing more than a marriage of faith and government, not exactly what Christ taught (render unto Caesar and all that).
DeleteExactly why we must fight to keep the church and government separate. I have beliefs that I won't push on others and I DON'T WANT others to push their beliefs on me, especially by bringing those outrageous beliefs into government, congress, and laws!
DeleteOT but in regards to the HBO movie Game Change - I was pleased to see that the movie is being treated as a serious effort, along with the book on which it is based. I missed the rsvp window for the event, but here in Texas (well, Austin, which is the blue oasis in this red red desert) no less than the Texas Tribune is hosting a showing with the book's authors on hand for a Q&A afterward. The Texas Tribune is a highly regarded online newspaper formed by Evan Smith, previously the editor of Texas Monthly magazine. The reporting is top notch, and the Tribune was selected for the coveted role of supplying regional content for the New York Times print edition. My point is that the movie, its' topic, and the book are all being given a serious treatment by a serious news organization - which is all good!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.texastribune.org/events/2012/mar/11/q/
So Mr. Schaeffer's father is/was a prominent conservative theologian? And Mr. Schaeffer is currently a member of the Greek Orthodox church? Active?
ReplyDeleteAll very interesting, and I think I'd better put in a call to Dr. Freud when I get a chance.
So the Greek Orthodox tradition is not at all fundamentalist? Really? Surely it's more progressive than the Roman Catholic church ;-). Not.
Certainly the cynical, hypocritical alliance between far right Christians, the NeoCons and Big Business in this country is disturbing, but that's where Mr. Schaeffer's protestations stop resonating, for me, in light of his own bio. He's gotta sell books, however. Wonder if he has ever felt the need to clarify where he is coming from.
Maybe he left the Orthodox church as well?
I'm not Greek Orthodox, but I am Russian Orthodox and can no longer believe in it. Experienced too much trauma as a result of Orthodoxy.
DeleteThis has to be the absolute best explanation of the extreme right wing fundamentalists. My mom said that George Bush's rhetoric "brought the evangelicals out of the mountains" to get them to start voting -- similar to Schaeffer saying they are waking from their self-imposed exiled hybernation. Although I agreed with Mom on her stance, Schaeffer's explanation helps me understand why.
ReplyDeleteGreat article.
ReplyDeleteBTW, did anyone catch Ricky's speech last evening? I was shocked when he said that men "and women" signed the Declaration of Independence. Is there another one that I don't know about?
It's my God-given right to be stupid:
ReplyDelete1 Timothy 6:20-21 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: :21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.
Now I didn't understand alla that, but I seen "oppositions of science" in there and that's good enough for me!
By God.
I read a lot of dystopian fiction, and the scariest ones involve religious takeovers of the country. It seemed far-fetched decades ago. I can't believe that in this day and age this has to be something I fear, but unfortunately it is, and I do.
ReplyDeleteIt's too bad Mr. Schaeffer didn't just come out and say exactly what the Religious Right has turned into... a CULT! And the cult members need only do what the Leader tells them to...which is vote against their best interest.
ReplyDeleteO/T - Has anyone here read Shailey Tripp's newest book? If so, can you write a short review.
ReplyDeleteThanks
Hey Gryph,
ReplyDeleteCheck out this guys rants about religion and the republican taliban.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXx5SIXnUxc&lc=BvBw3g5E_dvroSfowbRBTgp3WkQRlvtIdUF44uXNbIQ&context=G2549de0FAAAAAAAAAAA&feature=g-all-c
My Life as a Daughter in the Christian Patriarchy Movement -- How I Was Taught to Obey Men, Birth 8 Kids and Do Battle Against Secular America
ReplyDeleteWe were raised to fight the enemy, be it Satan or environmentalists and feminists; to come against them in spiritual warfare and at the polls.
...I learned that women are to be homemakers while men are to be protectors and providers. I was taught that a woman should not have a career, but should rather keep the home and raise the children and submit to her husband, who is her god-given head and authority. I learned that homeschooling is the only godly way to raise children, because to send them to public school is to turn a child over to the government and the secular humanists. I was taught that children must be trained up in the way they should go every minute of every day. I learned that a woman is always under male authority, first her father, then her husband, and perhaps, someday, her son. I was told that children are always a blessing, and that it was imperative to raise up quivers full of warriors for Christ, equipped to take back the culture and restore it to its Christian foundations...
http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/152393/my_life_as_a_daughter_in_the_
christian_patriarchy_movement_--_how_i_was_taught_to_obey_men,_birth_
8_kids_and_do_battle_against_secular_america/?page=entire
Schaeffer is a genuine hero. He dissects the fundagelical movement with brutal honesty, including openly indemnifying his father and himself in the part they played in its nascent stages.
ReplyDeleteJustice Louis Brandeis said "Publicity is justly commended as a remedy for social and industrial diseases. Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants; electric light the most efficient policeman."
Ultimately, the fundegelical extremists ARE a social disease.
The fundagelicals are at their heart liars and thugs and they themselves know this. When exposed to the light of day they bob, weave, dissemble and evade. Let's keep them on their heels defending their indefensible actions.
I doubt that many of the fundagelicals are capable of change, but if we expose their calumny and Machiavellian conduct we can at least minimize their influence.
while i agree with a lot of what mr. schaeffer is saying, this social blight is not only with religious sects trying to insulate themselves against 'evil' (or whatever). i see examples everyday, people who just don't know or who have forgotten how to communicate, work and live with others. for whatever reason it has become the new american pastime to be as insulting and vicious as possible when you don't agree with another persons opinion, instead of agreeing to disagree. i disagree with my husband occasionally, yet i've never screamed obscenities at him. people nowadays just seem a little self centered and can't be bothered with something as inconsequential as a differing point of view.
ReplyDeleteLet's see. How to put this.
ReplyDeleteIf God had not wanted scientists to find facts and truths through the scientific method, wouldn't God have made the universe unscientific?
So one didn't equal one, the sun didn't come up every morning, medicines didn't work, and gravity didn't keep us from flying off into space.