Friday, February 07, 2014

Hey you know those camels referred to in the Old Testament? Yeah that's not possible.

Courtesy of HuffPo:  

Researchers Lidar Sapir-Hen and Erez Ben-Yosef from Tel Aviv University have discovered what may be a discrepancy in the history laid out in the Bible. 

Using carbon-dating to determine the age of the oldest-known camel bones, the researchers determined that camels were first introduced to Israel around the 9th century BCE. 

The Hebrew Bible, or Old Testament refers to camels as pack animals as early as the story of Abraham. Though there is no archaeological evidence of Abraham's life, many in the religious and scientific communities, including Chabad and the Associates For Biblical Research, cite the 20th century BCE as his time of birth. If the new evidence is correct, however, this suggests discrepancies between the Bible and human history as explained by science. 

The researchers scoured ancient copper production sites in the Aravah Valley, where camel bones were only present in sites active in the last third of the 10 century and the 9th century BCE. Sapir-Hen and Ben-Yosef write in their report: 

"[The camel bones] demonstrate a sudden appearance of camels at the site, following a major change in the organization of production in the entire region." 

This suggests that camels were introduced to the region abruptly, perhaps by Egyptians along Mediterranean trade routes. 

Dr. Robert Harris, an Associate Professor at the Jewish Theological Seminary, says this shouldn't come as a shock to the theological community. 

“While these findings may have been published recently, those of us on the inside have known the essential facts for a generation now," Harris conveyed to HuffPost Religion through associates at JTS. "This is just one of many anachronisms in the Bible, but these do not detract from its sanctity, because it is a spiritual source, not a historical one.”

Wait, NOT a historical source?

Did anybody tell Ken Ham that?

I mean if the mention of camels in a story that came from this region in the 9th century BCE is an impossibility doesn't that raise serious questions about how seriously we can take ANY information provided by this book?

What am I saying? If these people were not there to actually SEE that there were no camels wandering around at that time then Ham will never believe there were no camels wandering around at that time.

That is the sad state we find ourselves in today.

One side of the debate is combing the earth and stars searching for evidence of their origins. And the other already "knows" the answers to all possible questions and is refusing to look at anything new which might prove their ignorance.

24 comments:

  1. Anonymous5:06 AM

    Jesus had a three camel garage ...

    He parked his dinosaur in one space and never let his teenage son drive it.

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    Replies
    1. Leland5:32 AM

      And definitely NOT his daughter! Women can't do things like that, don't ya know!

      Delete
  2. Anonymous6:01 AM

    Moses was lost in the desert for 40 years on his camel ... because... even back then, men would never stop and ask for directions.

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    1. Beldar Shecky Conehead7:09 AM

      Joan Rivers will be appearing in the Emerald Room every night at 7:30 and 11:00 until Passover. Just a reminder for parents, the late show is a little blue and for adults audiences only!

      Delete
    2. Love that line. First time I heard it was from Elayne Boosler. (The men in the audience did not appreciate it.)

      Delete
    3. Anonymous2:34 PM

      Charleton Heston:
      "Listen, these camels existed way back in the 50's while I was paying the part of Moses. So please don't tell me I fucked that camel every day for a year for no reason other than it was easy and she never said "No, Chuck."

      When they remove that camel hind end from my cold dead hands, don't forget the gun I put up her ass, too. And my step ladder also.

      Delete
  3. It’s not history, it’s just storytelling. Based on audience response, the stories were refined. That’s not to say there isn’t a grain of truth here and there, it’s usually the case in good storytelling. I’m still mulling over the round ark, since that makes quite a bit of sense, sans the elephants and giraffes, of course. Did history see more than one ark?

    I’m waiting for a person who is fully Jewish to compare his/her DNA to that of a Native American.

    This is getting good!

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  4. Anonymous6:47 AM

    Y'all's don't get it, do ya! This only proves that the earth is less than ten thousand years old and we werez RITE! DUHHHH!

    Snark OFF.

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    1. Anonymous2:36 PM

      Earth was flat back in those days.

      Delete
  5. Anonymous9:29 AM

    I hate to say that just because one site didn't have camels until late, it really doesn't prove that they didn't have or know of camels. Just putting some logic in.

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    1. Genesis 24:19. This is a not a vague reference, this is an animal that the Old Testament says was established in the area at that time.

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    2. Anonymous8:31 PM

      What I meant is, that lack of evidence may be an indication, but not proof.

      Delete
  6. Anonymous9:31 AM

    For disliking Christians and Plains, you spenda LOT of time discussing them, and preaching to the choir.

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  7. Anonymous9:56 AM

    They're Back! Those wonderful Church Bulletins! Thank God for church ladies with typewriters. These sentences (with all the BLOOPERS) actually appeared in church bulletins or were announced in church services:

    The Fasting & Prayer Conference includes meals.
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    The sermon this morning: 'Jesus Walks on the Water.' The sermon tonight: 'Searching for Jesus.'
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    Ladies, don't forget the rummage sale. It's a chance to get rid of those things not worth keeping around the house. Bring your husbands.
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    Remember in prayer the many who are sick of our community. Smile at someone who is hard to love. Say 'Hell' to someone who doesn't care much about you.
    --------------------------
    Don't let worry kill you off - let the Church help.
    --------------------------
    Miss Charlene Mason sang 'I will not pass this way again,' giving obvious pleasure to the congregation.
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    For those of you who have children and don't know it, we have a nursery downstairs.
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    Next Thursday there will be tryouts for the choir. They need all the help they can get.
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    Irving Benson and Jessie Carter were married on October 24 in the church. So ends a friendship that began in their school days.
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    A bean supper will be held on Tuesday evening in the church hall. Music will follow..
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    At the evening service tonight, the sermon topic will be 'What Is Hell?' Come early and listen to our choir practice.
    --------------------------
    Eight new choir robes are currently needed due to the addition of several new members and to the deterioration of some older ones.
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    Scouts are saving aluminum cans, bottles and other items to be recycled. Proceeds will be used to cripple children.
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    Please place your donation in the envelope along with the deceased person you want remembered..
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    The church will host an evening of fine dining, super entertainment and gracious hostility.
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    Potluck supper Sunday at 5:00 PM - prayer and medication to follow.
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    The ladies of the Church have cast off clothing of every kind. They may be seen in the basement on Friday afternoon.
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    This evening at 7 PM there will be a hymn singing in the park across from the Church. Bring a blanket and come prepared to sin.
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    Ladies Bible Study will be held Thursday morning at 10 AM . All ladies are invited to lunch in the Fellowship Hall after the B. S. Is done.
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    The pastor would appreciate it if the ladies of the Congregation would lend him their electric girdles for the pancake breakfast next Sunday.
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    Low Self Esteem Support Group will meet Thursday at 7 PM . Please use the back door.
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    The eighth-graders will be presenting Shakespeare's Hamlet in the Church basement Friday at 7 PM . The congregation is invited to attend this tragedy.
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    Weight Watchers will meet at 7 PM at the First Presbyterian Church Please use large double door at the side entrance.
    --------------------------
    The Associate Minister unveiled the church's new campaign slogan last Sunday: 'I Upped My Pledge - Up Yours.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous2:41 PM

      Now, THAT was funny. I don't care who ya are. Larry the Cabk

      Delete
    2. Anonymous2:43 PM

      Larry the Cable Guy. Shit! I hate this goddam phone!

      Delete
    3. Anita Winecooler5:27 PM

      Funny Stuff!

      Delete
  8. Anonymous11:16 AM

    Wait, this is all wrong and if you do the math you'll figure it out.

    For instance, given this statement: "...camel bones were only present in sites active in the last third of the 10 century and the 9th century BCE."

    BCE stands for Before Current Era (which used to be known as Before Christ. or BC...or what we will call or Year Zero).

    We are in year 2013 or Year Zero + 2,000 (rounded off).

    If the World was created 6,000 years ago, that means it was about 4,000 BC.

    The last third of the 10th century BCE or during the 9th century BCE would be 9,000 or 10,000 years ago. That's 3,000 to 4,000 years before Year Zero. Therefore it couldn't have happened as this article explains it.

    Pure math, total logic. So there.

    Also, too...speaking of Moses and the desert, am I the only one who wonders how millions of people could wander around in an area the size of West Virginia and be lost?

    You could probably stretch 2 million people arm to arm from one side to the other. If they'd done that they wouldn't have been lost.

    Or given how much garbage they would have produced couldn't they follow their own trail like Hansel and Gretel?

    Since I'm on a numbers (and Google) roll, I will point out that the estimated 2013 population of West Virginia is 1.8 million.

    Reports say 2 million Jews wandered around the Sinai for 40 years. This makes W.V. almost a perfect match size and population wise for the Jews wandering around with Moses.

    I believe that if 2 million people disappeared from W.V. 6,000 years ago, there would be SOME evidence of their having existed.

    (Save that bit of info about W.V. being almost the same size wise and population wise for the next time you feel like putting the Moses in the desert story into perspective. I know I will.)

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  9. Anonymous2:52 PM

    10 centuries = 1000 years= 1 millenia

    One third of 10 centuries = ~ 333 years.

    I know nothing else about camels other than I understand from a friend who rode one at a pyramid site in Egypt that it is not a smooth ride for a newbie.

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    1. Anita Winecooler5:32 PM

      Years ago, someone I worked with had the "pleasure" of visiting Giza. She said Camels smelled nasty, hissed and spat at each other and people and were literally a pain in the ass to ride. And those were "tame" ones that were used to being ridden and took the same path time after time.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous7:29 PM

      2:52 Are you saying my math is off? Well, OK, sorry if it is, but now I'm getting real confused.

      OK...I think I see why I am confused. And am even more confused now. I think this is mixing apples and oranges (and metaphors) here with the camels and Creationists.

      It would appear that the biblical scholars quoted in the article DID NOT believe that the earth was created just 6,000 years ago. That's not very "biblical" of them is it?

      So if you were a biblical sort of gal (or guy), you wouldn't have to be concerned at all about what the scholars said about there not being camels during Moses' time. They would already discount anything the so-called scholars said since they (the scholars) seem to think the camel came on the scene millenia before the earth was created.

      Now my head is spinning.

      (But I did double check the WV size and population against that of the Sinai and its wanderers, so you can trust those numbers.)

      Delete
  10. Anita Winecooler5:12 PM

    Nothing conveys "Definitively true and provable" as:

    "This is just one of many anachronisms in the Bible, but these do not detract from its sanctity, because it is a spiritual source, not a historical one.”

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  11. Camels did exist in the Old Testament!!! DESPITE THE ASSERTIONS IN YOUR ARTICLE evidence continues to amass that camel domestication was widely known earlier. Randall Younker adds Late Bronze Age I petroglyphs (Greek = rock/carving) depicting domesticated camels from the Sinai to that evidence. http://thedailyhatch.org/2014/02/13/despite-what-lidar-sapir-hen-and-erez-ben-yosef-of-tel-aviv-university-say-camels-did-exist-during-the-time-of-the-old-testament/

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  12. Anonymous5:02 PM

    Obvious logic flaws aside, there is much tangible evidence that camels were used in the area during Moses’ time. In 1920, a rope was found southwest of modern-day Cairo that consisted of two-strand twist of hair. Analysis of the material revealed that the “rope” had been made from camel hair, probably sometime around 2686 BCE – 2500 BCE. Similarly, ancient Egyptian pottery, dated to around 2500 BCE, has been found which depicts camels, camel heads, and even a camel standing next to a man. In addition, camel bones have been found in household ruins at Mari, in present-day Syria, that are believed to be at least 4,000 years old. Furthermore, a Sumerian text from the time of Abraham has been discovered in the ancient city of Nippur (southeastern Iraq) which mentions camels’ milk, clearly implying that camels had been domesticated at that time. These are just a handful of findings that not only suggest the biblical text was accurate, but that camel domestication was widespread throughout the area.


    http://bibleblender.com/2014/christian-news/propaganda-camels-could-not-exist-in-moses-time-illogical-untrue

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