So here we are on the third day after this horrific shooting and both sides of the political spectrum are firmly entrenched in their positions.
On the Left there are calls for more gun control and a serious discussion about racism in this country, and on the Right there are calls for arming pastors, and an aggressive attempt to deflect any blame for the violence from one who is clearly on their side of the ideological fence.
Here are some responses from those Republicans who claim to want to lead this country.
Chris Christie:
“Laws can’t change this.”
“This type of conduct is something that only our display of our own love and good faith that’s in our heart can change,” he said.
That of course it completely untrue. As can be proven by looking at the example set by Australia.
Jeb Bush (Same article):
“But I do know what was in the heart of the victims,” Bush said. “They were meeting in brotherhood and sisterhood in that church. … They were praying. They were learning and studying the word of the Lord, to find grace in his kingdom, to fill his house with love.”
Actually we DO know what was in the shooter's heart. Hatred for black people:
"You all rape women and you're taking over our country."
Not only that but like all sociopaths it appears he has written a manifesto, which comes complete with pictures, angry rants, and tons of racism:
Couldn't be much clearer than that.
Here is what Mike Huckabee, a Christian pastor himself, had to say:
“All the proposals this president and others have put forward on gun control would not have stopped this shooting anymore than it would have stopped Sandy Hook,” Huckabee said. “The one thing that would have at least ameliorated the horrible situation in Charleston would have been that if somebody in that prayer meeting had a conceal carry or there had been either an off duty policeman or an on duty policemen, somebody with the legal authority to carry a firearm and could have stopped the shooter.”
In other words we can do nothing to keep ourselves safe except prepare ourselves to return gunfire if fired upon.
Which unsurprisingly is essentially the opinion of Charles Cotton, a board member for the NRA:
Cotton, who did not return a message left at his Houston-area law firm, pointed out on a Texas gun forum that Pinckney was a state senator who had voted against a law allowing gun owners to carry concealed weapons without permits.
“Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead,” Cotton wrote. “Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue.”
So apparently these people deserved to die because they were not prepared to take a life in a place where they felt safe and were learning about love and compassion. Good to know.
No in the Right Wing bubble all gun violence is the result of mental illness, ill prepared victims, or radical Islamist terrorists from who the President is failing to protecting us.
However about that mental illness thing:
We do have statistics showing that the vast majority of people who commit acts of violence do not have a diagnosis of mental illness and, conversely, people who have mental illness are far more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators.
(As somebody who works with the mentally ill, I can concur that most of what we do is to protect them from others, not protect others from them.)
Personally I think that this recent Rolling Stone article really hit the nail on the head:
The fact is, this is political because American movement conservatism has already made these kinds of killings political. The Republican Party has weaponized its supporters, made violence a virtue and, with almost every pronouncement for 50 years, given them an enemy politicized, racialized and indivisible. We can't afford to allow political discussions of these events, because if we do, we might notice what's already there, wracking the body politic like gangrene.
Movement conservatives have fetishized a tendentious and ahistorical reading of the Second Amendment to the point that the Constitution itself somehow paradoxically "legitimizes" an armed insurrection against the government created by it. Those leading said insurrection are swaddled by the blanket exculpation of patriotism. At the same time, they have synonymized the Democratic Party with illegitimacy and abuse of the American order. This is no longer an argument about whether one party's beliefs are beneficial or harmful, but an attitude that labels leftism so antithetical to the American idea that empowering it on any level is an act of usurpation. Leftism no longer constitutes a debatable misuse of American power, but theft and governmental overreach.
In other words as the Right Wing sees their power diminishing as a more diverse population begins to outnumber their base, they start to talk about "protecting our rights," "2nd Amendment solutions," and "retaking our country," and ALL of that is the kind of rhetoric that leads to people being shot to death in their own house of worship.
What could have been done to protect these nine people in South Carolina?
Well making it much, much harder to get a gun would be a nice start, but also making people like Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, and Sarah Palin shut the fuck up would certainly make a vast difference as well.
Which of course is why Bill O'Reilly became so defensive when a guest made a similar point:
“You’re equating what Dylann Roof did in that church to our commentary?” he asked. “Are you saying that Fox News justifies brutal crimes against black Americans?”
Yes, yes I am.
Morality is not determined by the church you attend nor the faith you embrace. It is determined by the quality of your character and the positive impact you have on those you meet along your journey
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So, the solution is to arm everyone, everywhere? Of course, most of the armed vigilantes will not be trained
ReplyDeleteVery eloquently said, Gryphen. Maybe even more so than Jon Stewart.
ReplyDeleteAnd, what will happen when a gunfight breaks out in a crowded mall or restaurant? How many innocent bystanders-children will get caught in the crossfire? I don't want some Zimmerman, police school reject playing cop with my family!
ReplyDeleteOur churches and schools should not have to be morphed into forts, to justify the GOP/NRA gun culture that has become our sick society.
ReplyDeleteThe Republicans had better be careful in their continued racist ways, words and laws they are trying to push on Americans.
DeleteI see 'revolution' coming in America and they are going to be horribly surprised when they are sought after.
It truly irritates the hell out of them that whites and the Republican party are becoming the minority!
I would suggest they take huge steps in treating others of different skin colors as equals - because they are!!!!
I'm thinking they will be made to do so and many of us will thankfully live to see it occur.
(written by an American - born and raised here - having lived on this earth a long, long time and white!)
They should not have to. But it is happening. How do we deal with it? I am lost. I have no idea. The GOP/NRA is a cancerous and toxic thing in our midst.
Delete10:59 AM
DeleteBy voting would be one way (less and less Republicans will be elected to hold offices in the U.S. Congress as well as state and local governments!) and volunteering in communities to assist in getting voters prepared (proper ID for their state, etc.) to vote and assisting them to the polls.
We will see the demise of Republicans across the nation mainly due to the extreme right consisting of mostly older, white males who will be leaving this earth (dying off) in the next few years.
The younger folks in America are majority Democrat, Independent and Non Partisan. And, race issues are foreign to them - they truly don't see color, which I think is wonderful!
The Republicans have not been able to change even though the world is changing around them. They continue to fight women's rights, still consist of many that are racist, continue to obstruct voting rights of Americans across the nation - all the while not seeming to understand they will be outnumbered and no longer a viable party!
Okay, so four Americans in Benghazi Libya are killed and the Right go apeshit. Nine Americans who are Black are killed on American soil and the Right make up excuses the craziest being "this was a crime against Christianity". Yeah, we once again see where the priorities of the Right are.
ReplyDeleteWelcome to sarah palin's America.
DeleteShorter right wing manifesto- don't look at us. Why it's NEVER their fault:
Delete“You should be ashamed!” The right wing media said. “Stop thinking. Stop thinking now!”
If a gunman or two storm my church, will a pastor with a handgun be enough to assure my safety? Should we have a flamethrower at the pulpit? Perhaps the church choir should wear bulletproof vests under their robes?
ReplyDeleteA body scanner in the narthex. I would not be surprised.
DeleteI just pray to almighty Jeebus that Rick Perry, the next president of the United States has something profound and rehabilitative to say on the subject of this tragedy. Rick, how would you characterize this massacre? And savor the next few moments, bro, cuz you'll remember the next thing you say as the last thing you say as a presidential wannabe. Take it away, Rick!
ReplyDelete"Uh. Oops?"
DeleteRick Perry ALREADY said the WRONG thing concerning this issue and had to take his words back this morning! He'll never be elected POTUS.
DeleteHey Gryph seeing as how you hate christians and christianity so much, why not just ban worship and churches? Then this certainly could not happen again.
ReplyDeleteStill struggling with that reading comprehension thing I see.
DeleteStill struggling …
DeleteYeah, 10:17 AM is still following the Fox line that it was an attack on religion rather than an attack on blacks.
Well the reality is gentlemen, that nobody (nobody here anyways) knows the sum of the facts and motivations or state of mind. It is not much of a stretch however, based on the information provided, that the young man has very serious mental issues, likely schizophrenic, especially considering his age and behaviors. If he is, which is likely, everything else really is an unfortunate symptom of a spiraling of that serious disorder.
DeleteTake your fake piety and shove it.
DeleteAnonymous10:17 AM
DeleteNo asshole we will just ban guns!
FOAD
I would love to see these FAKE PACS like the NRA gone and see how fast these "lawmakers" change their tune when the NRA is not paying them? All pacs should be strictly regulated so they are only used during a election not a lobbying and grifter Pacs. Listen closely sarah!
DeleteNo 12:22, you won't because you can't.
DeleteThe typical liberal spin to use a tragedy for politics and gun bans is sickening as always.
'seeing as how'....really?
Delete12:28, listen you needle dick bug-fucker just because you have to have a gun to prove what a man you are doesn't mean everyone else thinks like you.
Deleteno comprendo bozo. ya missed it completely. I would shoot for? no breeding of ignorant racist people no mo. never again. generations of defective genes of hate ended yesterday. sadly 10.17 does not get it.
Delete2:34 another typical liberal comment.
DeleteWhen is the last time you had any new material?
12:28
DeleteLiberals don't want to ban guns you idiot. For the hundredth time we want background checks, registration at gun shows and private sales. We also want the number of bullets in a clip limited and assault/military weapons banned. That leaves more than enough guns.
We don't want nutbags as yourself running around waving and shooting your precious gun like a freakin roof.
Have a nice day.
If the Rights Spin is that President Obama stages these shootings to convince America that we need gun control, why would it not make sense that the NRA is behind these shootings, to frighten everyone into arming themselves?
ReplyDeletewell? by gosh you are right !! They pay a lot of money to promote anger, guns, god, hate and ignorance. Fox cost a lot. Politicians. Ads. keeping hate and racism alive is costly for zit united and the republican hate machine.
DeleteInteresting that Huckabee, Christian minister, advocates being prepared to commit murder as a response to threat. How very graciously Christian of him!
ReplyDelete10:17 AM You are such an idiot! YOU are the problem!!!
ReplyDeletei endorse the change suggested by a number of sharp posters: require that gun owners purchase insurance, just like car owners require insurance. I wonder how many insurers would go for that. I wonder how many gun owners would be able to afford both a gun and the insurance. I wonder if they would say, hey, I guess I can do without that gun (especially if they already own a lot of them). Or I wonder how many purchases would be denied because no insurer would say OK to somebody who has already fucked up involving a gun.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Gun Insurance? why not? and then of course the uninsured and underinsured option. The hit and run option. The full coverage for all events. Now. How about risk? pass behaviors? relatives? associations? background check? mental illness test? application and proof of insurance and background pass. Reasonable.
Delete10:33 my thoughts exactly!
ReplyDelete10:17 get your victimization in check. You sound like a whiner.
ReplyDeleteSorry 11:04 not a victim or a christian. Fail for you.
Delete
ReplyDeleteDylann Roof's Racist Manifesto Is Chilling
Shooter was obsessed with 'black on white' crime and called slavery a 'myth'.
A manifesto written by Dylann Roof sheds light on his twisted logic and bubbling hatred for non-whites—and his resentment towards blacks most of all.
In the manifesto—which was discovered Saturday morning by Internet sleuths—Roof says he was not raised to be racist, though he made racist jokes growing up. He says it was the Trayvon Martin killing—and his feeling that George Zimmerman was right to shoot the unarmed black teen—that awakened him to “black on white violence,” which he subsequently read about on the website of a South Carolina-based hate group called the Council of Conservative Citizens.
The writer of the manifesto says he found the “same things” happening in Europe, which he describes as the white homeland. “As an American we are taught to accept living in the melting pot, and black and other minorities have just as much right to be here as we do, since we are all immigrants,” he wrote. “But Europe is the homeland of White people, and in many ways the situation is even worse there.”
His most virulent hatred was reserved for black people.
“N**gers are stupid and violent. At the same time they have the capacity to be very slick,” he wrote. “Black people view everything through a racial lense [sic].”
Roof added, “I wish with a passion that n**gers were treated terribly throughout history by Whites, that every White person had an ancestor who owned slaves, that segregation was an evil an oppressive institution, and so on,” he wrote, adding that it would make it easier for him to understand what is now happening. “But it isnt true. None of it is.”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/20/dylann-roof-s-racist-manifesto-is-ignorant-and-chilling.html
Dylann Roof Visited Slave Plantations, Confederate Landmarks Before Massacre
New photos from Roof’s website, police reports, and eyewitnesses show how the alleged mass murderer came to find his target.
Eyewitnesses, arrest records, EXIF data from photographs uploaded to the website evidently created by Dylann Roof sketch the most comprehensive timeline leading up to his alleged attack on the Emanuel A.M.E. Church in Charleston, South Carolina on Wednesday, June 17.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/20/dylann-roof-visited-slave-plantations-confederate-landmarks-before-massacre.html
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/20/how-twitter-sleuths-found-dylann-roof-s-manifesto.html
First I blame Sarah Palin and all who support her for encouragement of people to commit violence against those that look like President Obama, spoken on the campaign trail, and John McCain for not putting an end to it, taking her off the ticket. Second NRA and those kind of folks are taking away my freedom, right, to travel, go to church, school, shopping without being armed, they are saying BUY a gun, it is a must. Question - would I be allowed into NRA offices if I was 'carrying'?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous11:18 AM
DeleteEXACTLY!!!
And you wouldn't be allowed at Sarah Palin rally either just sayin'!
Hell awaits the racist, Sarah Palin! She's un-American and should be removed from our country! Alaska is sick and tired of her and her family!
DeleteI agree. I live in the DC area. Someone got a little pissy with me in England and I went into fear mode because I was afraid that they might shoot me. I do not like living this way.
DeleteHas she made this about her yet? I don't "do" facebook except through links here.
DeleteThere is a interview with Australia's ex PM John major on how a massacre in 1996 enabled him to finally control gun ownership proliferation in his country. Of course he also says they don't have a Bill Of Rights that guarantees protection of gun ownership. In that sense here in the US this is not going to be easy...but this has to be done through "soft power" messaging..makeing the owners have a change of heart to begin with...something the Democrats are NOT doing as they also tow the votes of gun owners. Sad.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the President's speech. This behavior seems unique to the US. I feel we are at a new low but then again, I felt like that during the Bush administration and then I felt scared during the McCain/Palin elections. I felt then that I might have to move to Canada or become an expat overseas. And, then I read your Right wing comments. Things are not good and I do not know what to do. There seems to be a delight among the Right to be unkind.
ReplyDeleteI do not read that Gryphen hates religion.
ReplyDeleteGuess you haven't been reading here very long.
DeleteI think he does not care for how religion is used to divide and manipulate people. I personally do not subscribe to religious belief but I cannot object to the individual that has true faith, if indeed they walk the walk.
DeleteThis is the usual m.o. of the uninformed. Atheists aren't antitheism , they love humanity just because it's the right thing to do. There is no "us vs. them", believers and non believers alike can recognize hate and inhumanity in all it's forms.
DeleteWe all share this big blue marble, can we find a way to get along?
Right on, Gryphen! Thanks for another important post. These fake-pious conservative fundies have really shown their racist asses! They need to be called out loud and long!
ReplyDeleteGee, Bill O. got it right! Fox News and its sponsors, its viewers and the people appearing on its programs are all PART OF THE PROBLEM. And every member of the GOP who defends the wanton sale and use of guns in this country is part and parcel of the problem too and so are all the people who think it's okay to treat people differently based on race, religion or just how they look.
ReplyDeleteBeaglemom
A Conservative Website Literally Turned Dylann Roof Into The Murdering Racist He Is Today
ReplyDeletehttp://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/06/20/a-conservative-website-literally-turned-dylann-roof-into-the-murdering-racist-he-is-today/
Huckabee and those like him who think this problem is solved with more guns shows that the whole lot of them are crazy.
ReplyDeleteIt would be better that practicing Christians have home church than arm themselves and put themselves in a compromised position by wounding or killing another person. No real Christian is going to arm themselves. If it comes to this, where churches have to arm themselves, then the church will have to go into hiding, like the persecuted churches in intolerant countries.
Jesus did not kill his enemies, nor fight the religious zealots, he went like a lamb to the slaughter to his death, for the salvation of all men. Christians are to have the same attitude. This new brand of southern U.S. christianity is not christian. It's a cult that brandishes weapons and their own manifesto of being superior and powerful. They blend the gospels in with their agenda, IMO, to soothe their consciences, but they are no followers of Christ. This new breed of dominant party which uses Christ to lure new recruits is a false evil entity.
When Huckabee ran for president last time, it came out that he shielded his adult son from a cruelty to animal charge. His son, as a camp counselor, roasted a dog. His judgmental rhetoric makes me want to vomit.
DeleteThe response has been disgusting, but the underlying cowardice is certainly no surprise. To the last one of them, the NRA taps them on the shoulder reminding them who is boss, and without exception, they strip and get on all fours.
ReplyDeleteThat picture looks like he was playing Harry Potter. Maybe he thought the gun was a magic wand?
ReplyDeleteSeems he was taking psychoactive drugs over the past few years as well. Suboxone was one he admitted taking.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/south-carolina-shooting-suspect-idd-as-dylann-storm-roof-21/
I heard a very interesting commentary on NPR about this. Speakers were from U.K. and Netherlands. They are dumbfounded our media do not refer to the perpetrators of these atrocities as terrorists. The Netherlands referred to their domestic terrorist as such; the one that shot up the summer camp on the island.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't we?
I must ask if we are so entrenched in our violence and gun culture that we must divide and organize all of our violence, create so many labels that terrorist is reserved for a very small component of the over all problem?
Don't you think the "mental illness" tag is attached as a different way of rationalizing that it was just one lone nut and what can society ever do about that?
ReplyDeleteThis kid is 21 ,he should have had access to insurance via his parent's policies, thanks to Obamacare. If not, he should have been on Medicaid, because he is young, unemployed and poor. He had every opportunity to fix his mental illness, but he didn't. Fry him, and soon, or let the general prison population take care of him.
DeleteJust my opinion, no offense to the commenters, but I think he's referring to Bil O'Reilly with that label in this case.
DeleteI apologize, I read it wrong and realize what you meant. Yes, the gun fetishists and folks who misinerperet the second amendment's wording as a defense to the right to bear arms, mostly on the rwnjb spectrum of the GOP/NRA owned candidates the mentally ill are often used as pawns and the shiny object to deflect from the fact that guns are made to kill and destroy lives at will while the ones pulling the trigger play "Judge, Jury, and Executioner" in their heads. Again, my apology for misunderstanding the comment.
DeleteA friend of mine from Australia asked me why Americans were so defensive about guns. I do not know. But, we can ban guns and people will still kill by bombs, knives, illegal guns etc. Am not sure why Americans like to kill each other.
ReplyDeleteUK and Netherlands do not have the level of hate crimes that we have. I do not see our killing sprees ending. When I first heard Roof's comments, I thought KKK.
ReplyDeleteMr, Rutherford did a fine job of exposing O'Reilly for the coward fraud, pinhead he truly is. Having a guest on, who's lost a dear friend to a tragedy like this, then cutting the mic off is not only rude, but indefensible. Apparently Mr Rutherford touched a raw nerve. O'Reilly spoke over him and when he couldn't get the response he wanted, he cut him off.
ReplyDeleteThe poutrage today was with Hillary for her speech about gun control, across the Fox News ticker "Never let a tragedy pass without blaming it on guns, Hillary threw the first salvo and set in motion the left's hatred for the second amendment"
Anyone with any ideas on how to get rid of these asshats peacefully?
Dylann Storm Roof was "sick" in the head and needed treatment (psychotropic drugs)
ReplyDeleteGun control (screening and the like) would not work in this case. Dylann Storm Roof's stupid father gave him a gun for his 21st birthday!
Speaking of stupid... "Feminism helped to get them there. In particular, female teachers who either dislike men or are completely ignorant of healthy behaviour norms for boys are creating a generation of emotionally stunted, drugged up young men."
CONCEPT of Blogging About Mass Shootings
http://goodstuffsworld.blogspot.com/2013/09/concept-of-blogging-about-mass-shootings.html