You know I consider myself pro-life. That is why I oppose war, support vaccinations, want universal health care, and argue for the rights of all Americans.
None of us are pro-abortion, but the majority of us recognize that we have no right to tell a woman what to do with her body.
And sometimes choosing not to give birth really is the right decision for all involved.
(H/T to the Daily Kos.)
I could not agree more. Forcing a woman to give birth is not pro life. It is pro forced birth.
ReplyDeleteAnd now we have Huckabee saying he will bring out federal troops to stop abortion. This is why I cannot let go of my guns G. HIgh powered rifles actually. A presidential candidate threatening to send troops into our own country to stop legal activity that he does not agree with is unbelievable.
So I will be watching the debate next Thursday with great interest.
Huckabee and the fundies all would love to live in a Handmaid`s Tale world.
DeleteI was going to say the same thing. It's right out of The Handmaid's Tale. I totally agree with the good sister. The overwhelming majority of abortions are performed because the mother cannot afford to raise a child. In today's society, it is no longer the shame of an unmarried pregnancy that drives women to seek abortions; it's the financial implications of bringing a child into the world. There is no such thing as job security anymore and women are often the sole providers for their children.
DeleteIt would be so much better if free birth control was available to all women who want to use it. Then, the abortion rate would plummet. But that doesn't fit into the fundies' agenda. Women who can control their own lives and bodies are a threat to such men, therefore they need to be under control, preferably barefoot, pregnant and submissive.
Fuck Huckabee!
DeleteWe don't need to ever worry about him 'bringing out the guard'! He will never make it to the primary!
He's one nasty, white Christian male who is gross in his appearance due to being obese (probably very unhealthy too!).
Plus, he is a typical older Republican male constantly trying to govern women's rights.
Republicans have screwed themselves horribly for 2016. Can hardly wait to vote for Hillary Clinton...who made two wonderful speeches yesterday. Hope you all review them! She is so superior to the likes of Huckabee, Cruz, McConnell, Bush, etc.
Wait till this poor nun gets to feel THE WRATH OF SARAH PALIN, despite the fact that what the nun is saying is the absolute truth. Republicans in their quest for absolute pure right-wing dogma always "get it wrong." Their ability to abandon children, parents and everyone no belonging to the millionaire or billionaire club is amazing.
ReplyDeleteBeaglemom
Speaking of Airhead of the frozen North, her "TV" channel is now dead, just like her political future.
DeleteIf Palin thinks that kissing of the Trump nether regions is going to give her any mileage, she is once again sadly out of the running.
Extremely personal and the decision belongs only to the male and female that created this gift. It is not debatable or the business of gop rnc or anyone else. It is between the father and mother of this unborn child.
ReplyDeleteI really think a rapist shouldn't have a whole lot to say about what the woman does about the pregnancy the rapist imposed on her.
DeleteSorry sweet heart the male has maybe 10% of the decision making in this IF he is still around or not in jail for rape...
Delete@5:10
DeleteSorry sweetheart, the male that raped should have no say in the pregnant women's heath decisions. 10% is a number you made up for whatever idiot reason to make it sound like you are rational instead of moronic.
I don't think the male has any say.
DeleteIt's an embryo or fetus. Unborn child is an oxymoron as there is no child without birth.
DeleteA rapist or incest 'doer' should have no say as to an abortion. Knowing the incest side - trust me - abortion is and was warranted.
DeleteWhen thinking of the Right Wing's position on this issue, I always wonder if any of them ever see the irony that though they scream about keeping government out of their business, they are also the ones who want it in everyone else's business -- Big Time. Just another piece of evidence of their stupidity and bull-headed unreasonableness.
ReplyDeleteI had a conversation with a guy once who expressed regret that he and his wife had an unplanned pregnancy when they were young, before they were married. They decided they weren't ready for parenthood as both were in college, so they opted for an abortion.
ReplyDeleteFast forward 20 some years. They married and had three grown children and were starting on grandchildren. He had many regrets over the abortion because they had stayed together. He now believed abortion was wrong and should be illegal.
So I asked him, "Do you love the children you have and your grandchildren?". He said, "Yes, of course." Then I asked, "Which of them would you give up to bring back the potential child that was aborted?" I let him think a minute then added, "Because if you had had that baby, it would have changed your whole life. You'd have none of your present children or grandchildren." "You and your wife may have never even been married. One or both of you ay have dropped out of school to earn money to support the baby. The strain may have been too much for your relationship. you may have even grown to resent each other for the things you gave up." "You made a decision and stuck together and supported each other and lived a good life and raised three wonderful kids who are giving you wonderful grandchildren. That may have all changed had you had a baby at that time."
He thanked me for that thought and said he'd never looked at it from that point of view. He was still against abortion, but had softened his position.
I often argue this very point with the Pro Forced Birth folks...
ReplyDeleteThey certainly have nothing they wish to do to support the child after it is born...
They wish to impose a life of:
Hunger
Inadequate Clothing
Inadequate Shelter
Inadequate Healthcare
Inadequate Education
Culminating in a life of poverty and better than even odds of incarceration...
That's exactly right and it was a huge mistake for the abortion rights side to concede the "pro life" banner. It wasn't enough to simply call yourself pro choice. You don't let the other side lay claim to Life, anymore than democrats should have allowed republicans to lay claim to Patriot, or American, or own the flag. When they define you you've already lost.
ReplyDeleteI posted a few days ago about my life as the unneeded, unwanted child of poor parents. I have never understood the point of my existence.
ReplyDeleteThis nun says what I have tried to say so much better than I ever could.
The nuns who taught me that marriage's primary purpose is procreation, that abortion is the work of the devil, birth control was an insult to god ... they must be spinning in their graves. As they should be.
ReplyDeleteI do not understand how Planned Parenthood is always referred to as an abortion clinic, not as a health care center.
It's referred to as an 'abortion' clinic through the doings of the Republicans and the supposed Christians out there in our world!
DeleteThey truly are a women's health care center throughout the USA and many, many women utilize them for all of their female needs.
Thank you, Planned Parenthood!
O/T -- is Fartnocker gone for good?
ReplyDeleteSarah promised that her channel would stay up until today. That's a whole week worth's of SarahPalinChanel that we're being cheated of -- or, rather, the subscribers who paid for her words of wisdom now have a civil action suit because they paid for what they did n't get.'
Sarah -- a grifter and also a thief.
Sorry - but, anyone that falls for Sarah's bullshit and grifting for money - do so at their own peril and have no one to blame by themselves.
DeleteSarah Palin is a 'taker'! If folks haven't figured that out by now - it's their own fault!
Sr Joan, Chitesterlike Sr. PreJean truly love their faithr,ost often AMONG those poor and hungry. Unlike many priests protected on their parish dictatorships, cosseted like Richie Rich who the think they can tell others how to live. (Why I laughed in a celibates face as he pontificated about not using BC as a married couple. Haven't been in a church qua church since.and that was 30/years ago.
ReplyDeleteI dissent. I'm pro-abortion. I'm pro-abortion in the same way I'm pro-heart surgery or pro-breast removal or pro any other medical procedure.
ReplyDeleteSister Chittister is "opposed to abortion" although she doesn't "condemn women" who abort. Her questions and arguments related to 'pro-life' and patriarchy are theological and best left in the church. I wish we'd get away from theology as a basis for justifying any laws, programs, or wars, even those programs related to expanding opportunity and access to food, healthcare, or education.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/dissident-nun-sister-joan-chittister-the-lifesitenews-interview
Ditto. I'm pro-abortion, too. It's a legal health procedure that many women (including myself) have needed and wanted. To not be as "pro" abortion as any other available medical option is to be making a moral distinction between it and them, which gives more ammunition to anti-choicers. To say one is pro-life in this context does the same thing, because unviable fetuses are only potential life. You're either pro-choice or anti-choice when it comes to abortion, in my view.
DeleteThank you 7:26. As a nation we don't need the approval or the fear of any god to "form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity."
DeleteIt's freedom's blessings we should seek, not God's.
The "pro-life" crowd needs to put up or stfu. Every fetus is sacred? Then prove it. Donate a sizeable chunk of your income to create better programs to sponsor these women, make sure they have proper medical care and nutrition, make sure they get maternity leave so they don't lose their jobs, make sure they don't have to drop out of school.
ReplyDeletePair them up with those looking to adopt. Then make sure those babies have health care and a quality education waiting for them so they have a fighting chance in life. You know, they way Jesus would do.
If you're imposing life-changing decisions on other people against their will AND not giving them support so it doesn't ruin their life, then you're not JUST tyrannical and fascist, but you're also a giant arrogant soulless ASSHOLE.
So, how much do you think $arah and Bristol are donating to help women and babies? LOL rhetorical question! Obvs the "pro-lifers" are only interested in making life more difficult for all involved. If those women want support they can just damn well start a superpac to grift off the stupids or get a reality show like THEY did...
Amirite?
You are definitely right, Boscoe! Well said.
DeleteYour argument is confusing to me. It sounds like you're saying forced-birth is okay if society supports the affected women and children. More social programs would likely reduce abortions but if they're accompanied by anti-abortion/anti-choice legislation, women are no longer free and equal.
DeleteNo, he's saying they are pro-birth and not pro-life because they only want to force women to have a baby but not give them support to take care of that baby. They are hypocrites! An abortion is sought for a number of reasons -- and should be a decision made by the woman and her doctor. There should be no governmental interference. In addition, we need to support the babies, mothers that are already here and in need of help. Isn't that what pro-life really means? Nobody is pro-abortion, but a woman's body belongs to her and she should have the right to decide - not me, not you, not the government!
DeleteAbortion was the correct decision for me years ago and I've never regretted it. I'm a senior today and know I did the right thing under all the circumstances I was confronted with at the time.
ReplyDeleteNo regrets whatsoever folks and I mean it!
Same here, on all counts.
DeleteSarah and Bristol cannot couldn't and can't take care of the kids they have brought into this world!
ReplyDeleteThey were, or are, prime candidates for having abortions and I would bet Sarah especially has a record of having one or two early in her life!
Bristol just seems to deliver them and has someone else care for them or just plain out and out gives them away!
It doesn't say when the nun said this, but I took it as a recent comment (within the past year or so). I wonder how long it will be before she is ordered to STFU and hide by Rome.
ReplyDeleteLeland,
DeleteSister Joan has been a force to be reckoned with for quite a number of years now. The way I read it she and Pope Francis are really of a quite similar mindset and quite progressive for the Roman church.
BTW, the hubs has several sets of theological alphabets after his name and we have done lots of ecumenical work over the years so I'm not coming at this from a position of total cluelessness.
Sorry, 11:06, I just don't trust - and never have - the RCC. As long as the official stance of the church is the demand to keep women as second class citizens and deny abortion under any circumstances, even to the death of the mother, not to mention the many other dogmatic requirements, I will take everything said or done by them with a grain of salt.
DeleteTo be fair, however, I take that position with any organized religion, so I'm not singling the RCC out as untrustworthy.
Yes, there have been some who speak out as this nun has/does. Oddly enough, many of them seem to "disappear" or are eventually forced into silence in some way.
The RCC teaches -- unlike rightwing fundies -- that BOTH faith and good works are necessary to get into heaven. Therefore, this sister is being totally consistent with Catholic beliefs. Unfortunately the Catholic Church also teaches that fetuses take precedence over their mothers, even, for example, an unviable ectopic pregnancy that can not result in a living child, but will kill the mother, must still be allowed to proceed. That is what this sister believes as well, and there is no doubt that it is what the pope believes, and requires, because IT IS CATHOLIC TEACHING. So, as long as this sister stays on the fetus first plantation, she is fine.
DeleteLeland, 11:06 here. I totally agree that the RCC position on women was/is untenable, as is with most religious groups. I personally know some who have left the Southern Baptist flock over this very issue who fully support women in all forms of ministry. They even have women in positions of national leadership. Are they perfect in what they do? Oh hell no, but at least they are trying.
DeleteOver the years the Sisters and Fathers (I do hate those terms but it is what it is, for now) we have worked with have been the progressives in the RCC who really have been on the forefront for social and political justice. THEY are ones who were/are actually striving to be the hands and feet and heart of their Christ on earth. I wish more people knew of these Baptists and Catholics and how they work together to make life better for "the least of these."
I am deeply offended by the mindset of the talibangelicals and official positions of the RCC. That doesn't mean I haven't seen and don't appreciate the good done by those working quietly under the radar, living out their beliefs and often great cost to themselves.
Also (too), I don't think Sister Joan is going anywhere. She has been too much of a public figure for too long now.
Sarah Palin knows how to keep a 7 year old on baby food.
ReplyDeleteSister Joan gets that and a lot more! Never underestimate the power of RC nuns. Sister Joan has been around a long time and she is only one of many who understand the catechetical teaching that your own conscience should be your guide. As Tina Fey crudely but accurately said about nuns, "Those bitches know how to get things done!"
ReplyDelete