The Catholic church and other Christian communities must apologize to gay people and to many groups they have let down or offended throughout history, Pope Francis has said.
In a press conference Sunday on the flight back to Rome after his weekend trip to Armenia, the pontiff said bluntly: "The church must say it's sorry for not having comported itself well many times, many times."
"I believe that the church not only must say it's sorry ... to this person that is gay that it has offended," said the pope. "But it must say it's sorry to the poor, also, to mistreated women, to children forced to work."
"When I say the church: Christians," Francis clarified. "The church is healthy. We are the sinners."
As I have pointed out before I am very reticent to trust this Pope on the things that he says, but damn I have to say that this is a very powerful statement, And one that I would really like to see at least Catholics around the world take to heart.
There is indeed quite a lot for the Catholic church to apologize for, as it has caused great harm in many places around the world.
Perhaps, just perhaps, this is the first step towards taking real responsibility for some of the most horrific policies of the church and a step toward having more inclusive policies moving forward.
Hey, I can dream.
The church is healthy?
ReplyDeleteMany would beg to differ.
The matter has puts christians on the spot. Too bad
DeleteHilarious! Michael Jackson Resurrects in Africa (Must-see)
Donald trump strengths? He steels money from others, and hires out to committ the crimes Plus the bonus? he owns the moonvies, grovies, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, etc. CUT THE CRAP. End the extortion, deframation and crimes committed by this asshole and friends. Be Human!!!!! stop it.
ReplyDeleteWill our own, pious home-grown, bible-thumpers apologize for anti-gay discrimination? God no!
ReplyDeleteAnti-gay, anti-woman, anti-poor, anti-old, anti-immigrant, anti-minority, anti-gays...where would they start with the apologies?
DeleteBenghazi? Republicans carried out their promise. To DEFUND EVERYTHING. To shut down the usa and world. To commit crimes against the innocent. To lie cheat steal from America and Americans. To blame democrats. They are weak little republican boys with hate in their souls and ignorance galore. And Trump is the FACE of this unamerican party of the ugly hateful bullies of the world. The women of this party are defecting daily and voting FOR HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT. They hate U rump.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sarah-palin-donald-trump-vp_us_57724e9fe4b017b379f736ce?section=
ReplyDeleteSorry, Pope. I completely disagree! The PEOPLE are not to blame for the "damage" done to the people you target. It IS the church! As long as the church's rules are what they are, there will be Catholic mistreatment.
ReplyDeleteSay what you like, until the RULES are CHANGED, the problems will NOT go away.
The church IS people, honey. In that way, Rmoney was even correct-a corporation IS made up of people.
DeleteAgreed Sally, but even a corporation has rules and guidelines that the people are required to follow.
DeleteI understand the concept that the church or the corporation - or even a nation - wouldn't actually exist without the people, but it is the laws and rules and guidelines that frame the groups, setting it aside as their own special entity.
In the case of the Catholic Church, it has LAWS that even the Pope is required to follow. That's what gives him the opportunity to say they need to ask for forgiveness and do so without fear of actually CHANGING the church.
Until their laws are changed, there will NEVER be a female priest. Until their laws are changed, being gay will still be a sin. Until their laws are changed, having an abortion will plunge many women into the pits of guilt simply because they are taught it's a mortal sin. Etc., Etc., etc....
The Pope's position in regards to homosexuality is to apologize for attacking individuals, but still condemn their actions. The old, "Pray for the sinner" routine.
ReplyDeleteAll churches need to start paying taxes too.
ReplyDeleteOh they do. They do!!
DeleteDream all you want, this word spewing dude in a dress is just covering for his own sins. Not one of the people in the hierarchy of this corporation believes a word of the shit they spew. If they did they'd have stopped the sinning in their own house centuries ago.
ReplyDeleteI don't trust this phony baloney further than I could throw him.
I agree, 5:38. Completely.
DeleteThere IS one thing he is apparently quite good at, though - PISSING OFF the repubes! I loved it when he attacked one of their basic beliefs, their stupid trickle down economics theory.
He looks like the evil Septon from Game of Thrones!
DeleteOMG, is the world coming to an end or are entering a new era of enlightenment?
ReplyDeleteFirst the Pope wants to the church to apologize for its bigotry and cruelty and now Clinton gets cleared in Benghazi hearing report.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/us/politics/hillary-clinton-benghazi.html?smid=tw-nytpolitics&smtyp=cur&_r=0
According to the RW zealots, the world is ending, so get ready to be judged. Funny how they so look forward to the end times, when they are so full of evil.
DeleteI read that article with interest, but noticed they did NOT (at least in what was reported there) put any blame on Congress for failing to provide sufficient funds to DO the things they blamed the other agencies for!
DeleteOT. From Reddit thread on Daily Mail story about flight attendants
ReplyDelete'I was a flight attendant for a regional airline working on board Embraer 145s and a highlight of my career was Sarah Palin freaking the f**k out when we got hit by lightning.
'We were headed to Rapid City SD out of Denver, this was long after the 2008 election so it took me a moment to even realise it was her, and the first words she spoke to me were, "you have alcohol on this plane right?".
'We went through a storm and got hit by lightning that left a baseball size hole in the tail.
'She was screaming and carrying on and I was just like, chill lady, we aren't going to crash.'
I just love this story about how BRAVE Sarah is in real life.
As long as it's at the expense of someone else, screechy Sara is the brave big talker.
DeleteThis horrid creature has no "soul".She is pretty much a " zombie "
An apology doesn't quite cover all the atrocities that happened.
ReplyDeleteNo, but at least he admits they happened, unlike the American RW who is never guilty of anything but "loving our country and our blessed Constitution that tells us we can have all the guns we want. Praise the NRA!"
DeleteStluisIX over at the pond is surely going to lose his shit over this one.
ReplyDeleteboy ain't THAT the truth. That guy is such a radical Catholic supremacist.
DeleteHe's constantly frothing at the mouth about
how 'Murican ain't like the 1950's no more, and how his patriot sons are so good, and how Palin is a saint.
100% lunatic idiot nutcase ready to shoot gays, lesbians, blacks, libruls, hippies, and the kid who lost his ball on the front lawn.
Comments on this thread remind me of Conservatives who rail on about the absence of moderate Muslims, then when one steps up they berate and insult him.
ReplyDeleteFrancis has done more and changed more (for the better) than any religious leader in history. He attacked graft and corruption in the Vatican and he shook things up. He's reminded priests, bishops and whatever else they got what their jobs are supposed to be.
And he's come out against capitalism, greed, intolerance..."who am I to judge?"
Atheists and Liberals (like me) should be glad they didn't already kill him, not that he hasn't done enough.
Just because he says some things as those you mention, does NOT mean ANY real root changes will be made. And until those changes ARE made, the Catholic Church will still remain the worst purveyor of cumulative hate and death and pain (and everything else negative of which they are guilty) in all of history.
DeleteWhat was that old story about a wolf wearing a sheep's skin?
Would you start to believe Humpty Trumpty had changed simply because he has made a few APPARENT changes in his attitudes? Would you trust that change? I doubt it - unless you are already a Trump supporter, in which case you probably prefer his hateful side.
An ex-Catholic here (thank you, Richard Dawkins!) who has also been horrified by the behavior of the church hierarchy through the centuries--
DeleteIn fairness to this Pope, I have to point out that the Catholic Church is a 2000-year-old institution, with countless rules, laws, and traditions. It isn't like some evangelical church that changes with every new preacher.
To get upset with this particular Pope because he isn't changing things up immediately is kind of like getting upset with Barack Obama because he didn't repeal the second amendment, take away everyone's guns, mandate belief in climate change, raise the minimum wage to $25 an hour, make community college free for everyone, immediately arrange for a brand-new infrastructure to be built, etc. etc.
Obama couldn't even get Guantanamo closed, or hearings on a Supreme Court justice. Does that make him a terrible person?
With institutions, things just don't happen that way. Having read about this Pope's history, way of living, and the things he personally does and says, I am convinced he is a man of genuine good will who is trying to do the best he can with what he has to work with.
That said--OF COURSE, ABSOLUTELY the Church should apologize for their appalling actions through the centuries. Again, in fairness, it's the Pope himself who is saying that.
Within the Church, this is an incredibly big deal. Conservative Catholics especially are LIVID.
I like to believe there is a sincerely about him also. And I note that he sincerely left the pedophiles out of his apology. So sorry for making the children work under horrific conditions but not so sorry about murdering their souls.
DeleteOT:https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-promised-millions-to-charity-we-found-less-than-10000-over-7-years/2016/06/28/cbab5d1a-37dd-11e6-8f7c-d4c723a2becb_story.html
ReplyDeletehttp://www.salon.com/2016/06/28/donald_trumps_campaign_looks_more_like_a_con_every_day_the_press_should_cover_it_accordingly_partner/
Oh dear, it sounds like the Pope is making an 'apology tour!' A real one, unlike when Obama does it and never actually says, "I'm sorry." This Pope is sorry, and the Christians will NOT be happy! They only seem to be happy when they are stomping on someone else's country, killing people who refuse to fall into their lemming lines, or deriding people over their own private choices.
ReplyDeleteWorld News and views>
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cnn.com/2016/06/28/europe/uk-brexit-eu-referendum/
I'm waiting for 'the church' to apologize for all the murder carried out 'in the name of god'. Like for the Crusades, the inquisition, etc.
ReplyDeleteApologies don't fix anything, unless there is a concurrent change of policy throughout the organization.
"Imagine"
That's just what I have been trying to get across with my other comments posted above, 8:10.
DeleteIt's just like the Southpark episode where the local priest goes to the vatican to try to change the catholic policy of sleeping with little boys. He is told that the practice is part of the "document of holy vatican law" and can't be changed, all that can be changed is to get the little boys to stop talking about it...
ReplyDelete"When I say the church: Christians," Francis clarified. "The church is healthy. We are the sinners."
ReplyDeleteIf you re-read Francis' statement, you'll realize he was saying that belief in a white-bearded sky daddy God is good; it's the believers who act like assholes.
Catholicism is a Christian faith, just like Baptists, Methodists, Holly Rollers, etc. as opposed to Judaism, Buddhism, Pastafarian, etc. who worship icons other than the same one bowed down to by Pope Francis.
This is long overdue. The pedophile priest problem, in Philly, was addressed in a "weekend of reconciliation" where the Church welcomed people back to church. Everything's fine and dandy now, except for those kids who took their own lives, became addicted to drugs, overdosed etc etc etc.
ReplyDeleteI like this Pope, but there's something fishy with having a Pope and a spare.
I despair in my disappointment that Francis did not apologize for the molesters. Yet another wound to my soul.
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