You KNOW this is true.

When the memo comes out ...

one cable news network will treat it like the Bible

one will have memo supporters yelling at memo critics

one will have Rachel @maddow telling you the truth

— Lawrence O'Donnell (@Lawrence) February 2, 2018

MSNBC is now the number one cable news channel. Deal with it!

Courtesy of Variety: 

MSNBC ranked as the number one network across all of cable in total viewers for the first time in its history, according to Nielsen data. 

For Wednesday, Aug. 16, MSNBC averaged 1.52 million viewers for the total day across all of cable, edging out second place Fox News, who averaged 1.5 million. CNN ranked fourth among all cable networks for the day with 1.13 million total viewers. Nickelodeon was third with 1.17 million. However, in the key adults 25-54 demographic, CNN was number one among the cable news networks for the total day, averaging 381,000 viewers in that measure. Fox News was second in the demo for total day with 353,000 viewers, and MSNBC was third with 343,000. 

In primetime, MSNBC was also first in total viewers among the cable news networks with 2.61 million viewers. Fox News was second with 2.4 million. CNN was third with 1.59 million. In the key demo for primetime, MSNBC was first with 613,000. Fox News narrowly outpaced CNN for second place with 560,000, with CNN averaging 557,000. 

Across all of broadcast in primetime, Wednesday’s episodes of “The Rachel Maddow Show” and “The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell” were among the top 10 shows of the night in total viewers, with Maddow averaging 3.25 million viewers at 9 p.m. and O’Donnell averaging 2.54 million at 10. They were both the highest-rated and most-watched cable news programs in their respective time slots, with Maddow also nabbing 778,00 viewers in the key demo and O’Donnell nabbing 597,000.

This has been my go to cable news channel since 2004 so I am glad to see they are finally getting the recognition they deserve. 

Rachel Maddow still remains my all time favorite, but I am loving me some Joy Reid. Katy Tur, and Lawrence O'Donnell as well.

Psychologist calls Donald Trump a “paranoid, psychopathic, narcissist who is divorced from reality.” Oh, do people still not realize that?

Courtesy of Raw Story: 

Appearing on MSNBC Tuesday night, a psychologist warned that fellow doctors have a responsibility to point out that President Donald Trump exhibits clear signs of mental illness and shouldn’t be trusted with the nuclear codes. 

Speaking with host Lawrence O’Donnell, Dr. John Gartner claimed, Trump is a “paranoid, psychopathic, narcissist who is divorced from reality” who will put the nation at risk. 

“If we could construct a psychiatric Frankenstein monster, we could not create a leader more dangerously mentally ill than Donald Trump,” Gartner began. “He is a paranoid, psychopathic, narcissist who is divorced from reality and lashes out impulsively at his imagined enemies. And this is someone, as you said, who is handling the nuclear codes.”

“I would argue to my colleagues that those who don’t speak out are being unethical,” he stated. “If we have some knowledge and understanding about the unique danger that Donald Trump presents through our psychiatric training and don’t say something about it, history is not going to judge us kindly.”

I saw this the other day and I thought it essentially confirms every fear that we have about Donald Trump.

If you combine the information provided by these mental health professionals to what we have learned in the previous posts down below and other information since the election, you cannot help but to be deeply troubled by this presidency.

Personally I try to keep a positive attitude and focus on all of the great protests and activism that I have witnessed since the inauguration. And that gives me real hope for the future.

However in the back of my mind is always the nagging question, will our responses be too little or too late to stop the potential devastation that seems to be looming before us?

All we can do is hope that is not the case, and keep right on working to stop ALL of his agenda items and blocking ALL of his appointees.

Liberal is the new black in 2015.

Courtesy of The Wall Street Journal:  

There are signs that liberals are making a comeback — and not just because a socialist is running for president, gay marriage is spreading like wildfire and pot legalization is gaining acceptance. 

A new analysis of Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll data finds a marked increase in the share of registered voters identifying themselves as liberals, and an even bigger drop in the share saying they are conservatives. 

In three national polls conducted so far in 2015, the analysis found that 26% of registered voters identified themselves as liberals — up from 23% in 2014. At the same time, the share of voters identifying as conservatives dropped to 33% from 37% in 2014. 

The analysis by GOP pollster Bill McInturff, who looked at survey data from 2010 to 2015, found that the biggest ideological shifts came among women, young people, Latinos and well-educated voters, as well as people in the West and in cities.

 I've been telling y'all our time is now!

No more hiding our liberalness from our friends and families. We have got to stand tall and tell the world that this is our time and we are going to take back our country from those conservatives who have been attempting for decades to push it back to the 50's.

The 1750's that is.

Lawrence O'Donnell had the young college student who humiliated Jeb Bush on his program last night. And she's awesome!

Click image to play video

Damn! All I have to say after watching this interview is that Jebbie is lucky that he got out of there before she bitch slapped him into oblivion.

I think MSNBC should hire her immediately and send her out to all of the Republican campaign events to ask the candidates questions. Ratings would soar.

By the way the Daily Show also covered this exchange and it also was all kinds of awesome.

P.S. I wrote this post much earlier today with every intention of  publishing it before now, however breaking stories pushed it back to the end of the day.

Since writing this I have seen this young lady interviewed on Hardball, and she was just as intelligent and well spoken as on O'Donnell's show last night.

However Matthews was such a dick, trying to get her to attack Hillary and talking over her the entire time, that I found the piece unusable.

Lawrence O'Donnell's interview with Chief Medical Officer Janet Orlowski, and more on the D.C. Navy Shipyard shooter.

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

I have to say that I was somewhat surprised that Dr. Orlowski used the word "evil" to describe the behavior of those who shoot others. In fact it is most likely that they are mentally ill, or temporarily overcome with such anger and emotion that they cannot think rationally.

The evil part is that they have easy access to such devastating weaponry.

A crazy person with a kitchen knife stabs one, two, or perhaps three people, he does not mow down a cafeteria full of innocent Navy Shipyard employees.

Speaking of the shooter, we have learned much more about him since yesterday. Here is MSNBC's update: 

Many questions about Monday's shooting deaths of 12 people at the Washington Navy Yard remain unanswered and with the main suspect among the dead, some of the specifics may never be nailed down. 

After using a fingerprint to identify him, authorities said the gunman was Aaron Alexis, 34, a former naval petty officer. Initially authorities said they were actively seeking a possible second suspect: a 50-year-old black man with a rifle, wearing an olive drab military uniform, but then late Monday they said they were no longer looking for that individual. A third man who was initially a person of interest was eventually cleared. 

Investigators have revealed little of what they've found out, but here's what they're likely to be focusing on: 

After having been discharged from the Navy, Alexis served as a naval reservist and had been working as a civilian contractor for a division of Hewlett-Packard that was upgrading equipment used on the Navy/Marine Corps intranet, the company confirmed Monday. Investigators said he may have recently lost that job, giving him a grudge to nurse. 

Under a new support contract, all HP hardware at the Navy Yard was relocated to Denver last month — leaving few if any support jobs needed in Washington. It wasn't known whether Alexis' job was one that was moved to Colorado — and if so, whether he declined to move or was let go as part of the reorganization. HP wouldn't say Monday whether Alexis was still on its payroll. 

Or maybe it was something else. 

Court records show that Alexis was arrested in 2004 in Seattle for allegedly shooting a vehicle in what he told police was a "black-out fueled by anger." According to the original incident report, Alexis' father, who lived in New York, told police his son had "anger management problems" probably exacerbated by the stress of having been "an active participant in rescue attempts of September 11th, 2001."

The man had been involved in two separate gun incidents, one of which seems to have been the cause of his "separation" from the Navy, and yet he was still able to purchase a shotgun in Virginia. (The other two weapons, an AR-15 and a handgun, he seems to have taken off of victims at the facility. (So much for the idea that these shootings only happen in places that are "gun free.")

As of now it appears that Alexis was the only shooter, and that he acted independently.

Just a one armed man, with anger control problems, two incidents of gun related violence in his past, and an access card to a military complex.

Lawrence O'Donnell takes yet another victory lap. This time in response to the fact that Congress has finally realized that the REAL IRS scandal is that it has been breaking the law for fifty years.

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

As everybody who watches the Last Word well knows Lawrence has been the lone voice reporting that the IRS should not be giving 501 tax exempt status to ANY of these political groups. And now Darrell Issa's Oversight Committee has FINALLY recognized a truth that might just mean that ALL of these Tea Party groups, and even Democratic ones, will soon lose any tax exempt status.

There is a murmur on the internet that I had been poo-pooing, but now I think it deserves some consideration. And that is a kind of conspiracy theory, if you will, that suggests that perhaps many of these recent leaks, the IRS 501 leak, the drone strike leak, the leak about the collecting of AP reporter phone records, the Verizon data collecting leak, might in fact be coming from inside the Obama White House as a way of getting these very touchy subjects out into the media so that they can be discussed and the administration can then be "pressured" into doing something about them.

But nah, that's just silly.

I mean NOBODY could be that far ahead of the curve. Could they?

Well at least one MSNBC host was pretty damn far ahead of the curve. THAT MUCH we do know!

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, takes a victory lap quite as well as Lawrence O'Donnell. Good-bye Michele Bachmann, and good riddance.

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

You know, its easy to forget just how batshit crazy this woman is until you see all of her lunacy strung together in one long video homage to insanity.

That look on Steve Schmidt's face is priceless. but somehow I think it pales in comparison to the smile lighting up the faces of many people living in Minnesota right now.

Lawrence O'Donnell virtually eviscerates Asa Hutchinson, head of the NRA's "School Shield Task Force," in an interview last night.

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

Okay I am not going to lie to you, this interview is long (Just over 25 minutes). But do yourself a favor and watch it, because Lawrence REALLY puts this guy through the meat grinder, and does NOT allow him to bullshit his way out of ANYTHING.

There were a number of times that Hutchinson looked like he wanted to just crawl away, and a number of questions, such as on the extended clips, that he simply could not answer adequately.

This is one of O'Donnell's best interviews, and I think he deserves serious props for getting Hutchinson to come on, and then doing his job as a journalist once he did.

As much as it pains me I should also say that I am impressed that Hutchinson showed up for an interview that he had to know would be hostile, and then sat through it without ripping off his mic and running for the exit. I think a lot of people would have bailed.

By the way to go along with this there is also a report on Raw Story which undermines the very premise of the NRA's "School Shield" findings: 

The proposal appears to be based on a faulty — although widespread — opinion. The NRA has said schools are not safe places for children because gun-free zones make them “utterly defenseless.” However, the article contends schools are in fact safe places. Though gun violence is the second leading cause of death among those ages 5-9 and 15-24, nearly all of those deaths occurred outside of school. In fact, Stephen Brock of California State University, a leading expert on school violence, described schools as “the safest place for a student to be.” 

“To try and reduce something that already is rare… is tricky business,” Crews remarked, noting that there is only 1 homicide or suicide at school for every 2.7 million students. 

Crews and his colleagues found there was little evidence to suggest that placing armed guards in schools would actually prevent gun violence. About 27 percent of schools in the United States already have armed or unarmed security officers. Both Columbine High School and Virginia Tech had armed security guards, but that did not prevent two deadly mass shootings. A 2011 study found schools with armed guards actually had higher rates of violence than similar schools without armed guards. 

Having armed guards in schools also raises the troubling possibility that a student could get ahold of their firearms. 

“Ongoing research that we are conducting with incarcerated perpetrators of school violence also indicates that school shooters have easy access to weapons, often getting them (either as gifts or stealing them) from their parents, neighbors, or friends who may have purchased them legally,” Crews explained. “Putting more weapons in schools just makes more weapons available because inevitably, someone will forget to lock their drawer, misplace their key, or otherwise lose track of their firearm, making it easy for kids who want to have one to take it.”

Personally I think that just about anybody with critical thinking skills could have worked this out on their own, but nice to see a report by experts which backs our commons sense.

When it comes to taking down lying political blowhards perhaps NOBODY does it better than Lawrence O'Donnell. Let's get out some popcorn and watch what he does to Ted Cruz.

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

God that was satisfying!

Ever since I watched that exchange between Dianne Feinstein and this tool, I have had this almost overwhelming desire to see him get his ass kicked on camera.

I think Lawrence gave us the closest representation of that we are likely to see.

Lawrence O'Donnell ridicules Scott Brown's choice to walk away from politics to join Fox News. Says he "completed a full Palin."

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

Every time I see Palin's resignation speech I am reminded how incredibly panicky she seemed as if she were terrified of what was coming. Considering how things worked out, she should have been!

You know I don't think I will EVER get tired of seeing Sarah Palin used as a measuring tool for determining just how badly a politician, or public figure, is doing

Lawrence O'Donnell obliterates Rand Paul's conspiratorial filibuster.

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

Excellent job on Lawrence's part. I don't know which filibuster Dionne and Grim saw but the one I saw closely matched the one that O'Donnell is describing.

It was crazy, it was conspiratorial, and it was aimed right at the most deeply held fears of the Tea Party movement, That this president will soon target them with drones for daring to speak out against him.

For those who keep asking what the purpose of Paul's filibuster was, first off I can't believe how slow you are on the uptake, and secondly this:

Paul himself seemed to appreciate that this was an important moment for himself, confidently acknowledging to POLITICO in an interview that he was “seriously” considering running for president in 2016. 

“I think our party needs something new, fresh and different,” he said. “What we’ve been running — nothing against the candidates necessarily — but we have a good, solid niche in all the solidly red states throughout the middle of the country.” 

But he suggested previous Republican candidates have had limited appeal to voters beyond the Republican base. 

“We have to figure out how to appeal to the West Coast, New England [and] around the Great Lakes area. We need to figure out how to appeal to the blue-collar voters that voted — that were Democrats that voted for Reagan and I think are drifting back because they see us as the party of the wealthy. … I do want to be part of making the Republican Party again more of a national party, less than a regional party, which I think we’re in danger of becoming. 

Does that make it more clear?

Paul was able to grab the spotlight, use the drone strike debate to make himself seem vaguely topical, and manipulate a few people out there who don't feel very connected to any one party, into believing that he is not an absolute lunatic.

Which of course is EXACTLY what he is. But hey seeing open disagreement within the Republican party is never a bad thing in my opinion.

And if Rand Paul wants to run in 2016, let him run in 2016. Who knows, considering how discombobulated the Republican party is these days, he might just win.

The black helicopter crowd VS the Democratic party, sounds like popcorn time to me!

Lawrence O'Donnell confronts that crazy pro-gun lady from the Senate Judiciary Committee hearings.

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

While I certainly understand Lawrence O'Donnell's frustration with this lunatic I kind of wish he had come off as more calm while interrogating her, as this will simply be spun as another liberal attack on a strong conservative woman by the Right Wing radio folks and Fox News.

As for Ms. Trotter apparently her adamant support of a woman's right to be safe in their homes seems to ONLY extend to their right to possess dangerous weaponry.

This courtesy of TPM:

Gayle Trotter, the conservative activist who became the breakout star of Wednesday’s gun violence hearing in the Senate with her adamant cry that women need assault rifles to defend themselves, wrote last year that she opposed the Violence Against Women Act. 

The reason, she said at the time, was the law would create the prospect of “false accusers” stealing taxpayer money by using shelters and legal aid. 

“VAWA now touches hot button immigration issues, which have the potential to encourage immigration fraud, false allegations of abuse, and denial of a rebuttal by the accused spouse, whether male or female,” she wrote.

So to Lawrence's question about whether she was an "independent woman" or a "Right Wing Republican" I think we have our answer.

While it is perfectly reasonable to allow young women, with small children in their homes, access to military style assault weapons for the purpose of self defense,  it is UNREASONABLE to support legislation designed to protect them from that very same assault in cases where they did not have the opportunity to blow their attacker away? So much for consistency.

By the way, for those kind of freaked out about that whole "home invasion" thing, perhaps visiting this website will provide a little reality check for you.

At the end of the day this is how I see it.  The pro-gun rights, anti-assault gun ban people, can HAVE Gayle Trotter and Wayne LaPierre make up statistics and lie to the American people all they want in order to minimize the facts about gun violence in this country. Because on OUR side we have the unstoppable Gabby Giffords and her husband Mark Kelly.

And I have to tell you, I like our odds.

Lawrence O'Donnell takes a much deserved victory lap at the news that Fox News has kicked Sarah Palin to the curb. After all Lawrence was NEVER fooled by Sarah Palin. Never!

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

Courtesy of the Last Word:

In Monday’s Rewrite segment, O’Donnell gave one giant I-told-you-so to pundits and media organizations who took the former Alaska governor seriously as a contender to run against President Obama in the 2012 race. 

“New York Times reporters were not the only ones fooled by Sarah Palin pretending to think about running for president,” said O’Donnell. He also name-checked Dick Morris, Karl Rove, Rudy Giuliani and Game Change author Mark Halperin. 


O’Donnell played a clip reel of the many times he predicted that her flirtations with the Oval Office were a complete “joke,” and reminded viewers of “the world in which the political media hung on every Sarah Palin tweet” and “every ridiculous Facebook post.” 

“It seems now like a far off world, the world in which the political media took Sarah Palin seriously. And now she has lost even the slightest connection to political relevance since FOX News last week unceremoniously dumped her from their paid players list,” said O’Donnell. 

Wow! Lawrence is having almost TOO much fun.

But you can't blame him. He was many time just about the ONLY pundit on any network to call bullshit on Palin's phony political prick teasing about possibly running for President.

God I love the smell of vindication ins the morning. don't you?

Lawrence O'Donnell tears into one time NRA spokesman, and current board member, Tom Selleck.

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

Courtesy of MSNBC:  

Actor Tom Selleck became the poster boy for the National Rifle Association–and the subject of controversial publicity–14 years ago, after two high students at Columbine High School murdered 13 people and injured 21 students. The Columbine massacre occurred a month after Tom Selleck appeared on the NRA ad with a rifle across his shoulder. 

In addition to acting as the public spokesman, Tom Selleck is now a member of the Board of Directors of the NRA. And so, “the time has come to do what Rosie O’Donnell refused to do 14 years ago–question Tom Selleck’s humanity,” according to MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell. 

In the past 14 years, a shooter killed 32 people and wounded 17 on the campus of Virginia Tech, setting the record for American gun massacres. Then on January 8, 2011, a shooter killed six and wounded 13, including Congressman Gabby Giffords. On July 20, 2012, a man using a hundred-round ammunition drum killed 12 people and wounded 58, setting another record for the highest number of people shot in an American gun massacre. Finally on December 14, 2012, a man killed 20 children and six teachers in a Connecticut elementary school. O’Donnell states that Selleck remained silent after those shootings.

You know I watched that original broadcast of the Rosie O'Donnell Show and I have to say at the time I kind of felt bad for Tom Selleck.  Today I do not have a shred of sympathy for him left.

Lawrence is right, he needs to speak out and take responsibility for the organization that he represents.

From the "Last Word" on Thursday, Lawrence O'Donnell once again explains just how impressive it was that President Obama got the Republicans to sign the Fiscal Cliff bill.

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

Now you have to pay close attention to the detail that Lawrence provides describing the intricacies of negotiations at the Senate level and to help with that here is a great transcript written up by the folks over at the Daily Kos.

If you don't have time for that I completely understand but I do want to draw your attention to this portion here:  

If you've ever actually tried to get a Republican in the House or Senate to vote on an income tax rate increase, proposed by a Democratic president--if you've done that--and perhaps only if you've done that, then you understand how hard it was for President Obama to get a tax increase out of a Republican House of Representatives and out of a Senate where the Republicans can block anything. 

Most pundits and members of Congress for that matter have never negotiated anything more complicated than a car loan or a mortgage and some of them will surely continue to criticize the President's negotiating skills but the President was playing a very long game here. 

Literally years of strategizing including allowing a two-year extension of the Bush rates in order to get strategically positioned, so that he could force Republicans to cast a vote they vowed never to cast.

Now are you impressed? Because I KNOW I am!

Lawrence O'Donnell explains why the Fiscal Cliff deal was the best deal possible.

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

I did not have time to post this yesterday, but I think it is too important to simply ignore.

I agree with Lawrence 100% on this and suggest that you listen to him carefully.

Lawrence O'Donnell visibly chokes up as he describes the Senate's "Day of Shame."

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

Courtesy of MSNBC:  

“Having worked in the Senate for seven years, I think the Senate remains a great institution which has done much, much more to be proud of than the rare occurrences that it should be ashamed of. I don’t usually think that when a vote doesn’t go my way in the United States Senate that the Senate should be ashamed of itself,” said O’Donnell in Tuesday’s edition of The Last Word. 

Despite impassioned pleas from decorated veterans Sen. John Kerry and Sen. John McCain, the vote to ratify to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (CRPD) fell short on Tuesday, 61 to 38. All of the opposing votes were from Republicans. 

The CRPD was modeled on the Americans with Disabilities Act, a law passed by the Senate 22 years ago. Similarly, CRPD promoted nondiscrimination and accessibility measures, making sure things like sidewalk ramps and handicapped accessible restrooms are up to par with U.S. standards. 

O’Donnell accused these GOP senators of failing one disabled person in particular: former Republican Majority Leader Bob Dole, himself a disabled veteran, who was sitting in a wheelchair on the chamber’s floor. 

“Bob Dole reached into their hearts and today found…nothing,” said O’Donnell. “With one word–no–they failed their old friend. They dishonored themselves and they dishonored the United States Senate.

I have to admit that in the last twelve years I have become more an more cynical, but this incredibly distasteful display of cowardice by the Republican party has shocked me. And the truly puzzling part is that I cannot think if a reasonable excuse for their behavior.

It is as if they are hand me down puppets and anybody, with ANY political clout, is welcome to pull their strings.

Here is another observation.

I don't know how many of you bother to visit over at Fox, and I am certainly not suggesting you do so, but if you did you would notice that the "pundits" over there are forever worked up over something. The "War on Christmas," Obama's socialist policies, Benghazi, etc., etc., etc..

However it always feels to me as if they are playing a part.  You know, as if they simply don't believe in ANY of it, but know that it fires up their audience and attracts their dimwitted viewers like moths to an open flame.

I do not have the same opinion of the folks over at MSNBC. Which is perhaps why I choose to watch them almost exclusively.

They are true believers.

When Lawrence O'Donnell goes on one of his rants, you can feel his passion. When Rachel Maddow zeroes on on a story and then explains it in terminology that makes a complicated issue accessible to the audience, you know it is important to her that you understand. When Chris Matthews cries out in frustration that the President blew his first debate, you feel that his anguish was real. The same goes for Al Sharpton and Ed Schultz.

In other words they are not simply on television to gin up ratings or sell their books, they are there to inform, to correct, and to inspire the viewer. And I have to say that they do that quite well.

Lawrence O'Donnell brilliantly weighs in on the Bob Costas NFL shooting controversy.

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

The best reporting on the Republican attacks on Susan Rice is being done by Rachel Maddow. Don't take my word for it, watch it for yourself.

I do have to do a mea culpa. Yesterday I posted another video of Rachel's show dealing with this issue, in whihc I said the following:  

I had already been convinced that this desire to get their hands on John Kerry's Senate seat had to be the underlying reason for this bizarre fake outrage over the talking points that Susan Rice shared on those Sunday morning news shows right after the Benghazi attacks.

Which is true, except at the time I wrote that I could not exactly rememeber where I FIRST heard of this explanation for the Republican's bizarre fixation on this seemingly inconsequential flub by Susan Rice.

Somebody in the comments section, then reminded me that Lawrence O'Donnell had been one of the first, if not THE first, people to put two and two together.  That is of course absolutely correct, and once my memory was jogged I have to admit it was indeed on the "Last Word" that I was fist made aware of this blatant political gamesmanship.

So huge hat tip to LD, for seeing through the BS yet again. Lawrence has an uncanny gift for seeing through the obfuscation better than just about anyone in the business, AND unlike some of the more reserved MSNBC hosts he never holds back from calling people out.

However having said that I STILL think that Rachel is knocking out of the park right now, and she remains my go to person on this issue.