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| Geoffrey Dunn and Gryphen in Alaska |
Below is my interview with author, and my good friend, Geoffrey Dunn.
I attempted to ask Geoffrey questions that perhaps others would not think to ask him, as well as those to which I already knew the answers, but thought all of you might enjoy learning about as well.
Hopefully this interview will clear up some of the misconceptions that are swirling about concerning the research done for this book, and provide some insight into just what a herculean task writing a book which reveals the truth about such a secretive person can turn out to be.
So get a cup of your favorite beverage, sit back, and enjoy the conversation.
Gryphen: What was your very initial impression of Sarah Palin, when she first came onto the scene?
Geoffrey Dunn:
I felt like I saw right through her from the get-go. I never felt, to steal a phrase from Gertrude Stein, like there was a there there. I knew people in the Mat-Su who said that her mayorship in Wasilla had been a disaster. I just never bought into the hype. When she was nominated for vice-president, I knew there was trouble ahead, and I was right.
Gryphen: How long did it take for you to start thinking there might be a problem with her ability to tell the truth?
Dunn:
You know, there’s a fascinating editorial from the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman that was written in 1996. And it’s devoted to Palin’s inability to tell the truth. It’s stunning. It’s been part of her M.O. from the beginning. In November of last year my friends in Alaska all emailed me about her lying about the weather in Juneau when she was on Fox News. She lies about the weather. She lies about everything. As I say in the book, it’s a pathology.
Gryphen: When did you first decide to write a book about her, and what was the impetus of that idea?
Dunn:
I had no intention of ever writing a book about Palin when I first started writing about her for the Huffington Post. None. Nada. I assumed that someone would grab a book deal about her and run with it. Plus, I didn’t want to spend a couple of years working on a book about her. But then several people started encouraging me to write a book – this was near the end of the 2008 campaign – and remember, she was coming back to Alaska to finish out her term for governor —and so the first idea for a book was that it would be a reflection on the interface between Alaska politics and the Outside. That has always fascinated me since my first trip to Alaska in 1974. Most people Outside have no clue about what is going on in Alaska. And then of course, she came back to Alaska and clearly had no interest in being governor anymore – none – she absolutely hated it. She’d seen the lights of the big city and wasn’t going to be kept down on the farm. So the book changed because her position in American political discourse changed. She became a national icon and she has stayed a national icon.
Gryphen: Did you find it easy to locate people in Alaska who were willing to go on the record about Sarah Palin?
Dunn:
Nothing was “easy” about this book. Nothing. You know, Michael Paul Gross came to Alaska and said that no one would speak to him on the record. Ditto with several other reporters. I built up trust over two years with several people and the vast majority went on-the-record with their comments. But nothing was easy. And the Palin supporters have always attacked anyone who goes on the record. Viciously.
Gryphen: Did you make contact with any of the Palins close friends or associates? If you did what were your impressions?
Dunn:
Yes, of course I made contact with several people who were at one time close to the Palins, and some who still claimed to be close. All good people. But it’s a fascinating river of human carnage that have been thrown under the bus by Palin—from Wasilla to Juneau to the McCain campaign, and now, even to SarahPAC. And they all draw the same portrait of Sarah Palin – and a pretty portrait it is not. Next week there will be another book out by one of her closest supporters – someone who was one of her closest confidantes, Frank Bailey. And he draws the same portrait.
Gryphen: What shocking bit of information about Sarah most surprised you while researching this book?
Dunn:
The fact that she clearly and openly betrayed John McCain during the 2008 campaign. Now you can say, well, of course, everyone knew that. But when I stepped back from my book and looked at the whole story, that really hit me: she openly and willfully betrayed John McCain in the middle of the campaign. Wow. Think about it.
Gryphen: There have been some allegations from a few readers who claim that your sources were lying. How do you answer such charges?
Dunn:
I checked up on the stories that were told and got confirmation from others. And I will forever stand by my sources. But look, one doesn’t need to question their rendition of events. The most devastating revelations in my book are those that are unchallenged, for which Sarah Palin is herself the source. And the most ringing is Palin’s tone-deaf and morally bereft response to the shooting of Gabby Giffords and the killing of six innocent bystanders in Tucson. Watch that tape again. It’s a shameful moment in American history. Appalling. And the commentators I cite in response to Palin’s speech are Republican and conservative commentators, not liberal ones. Watching Palin’s response made me sick to my stomach. It still does. That’s why I call the Epilogue to my book, “Crosshairs.”
Let me also add this—whenever someone attacks Palin, the minions circle the wagons and attack the messenger. They’ve done it every time. It’s soooo predictable. And when you watch it enough, the Palin inner-circle takes on all the qualities of a cult. And these people are cultish in their behavior. If you read the Bailey book, one reading is that those in the inner-circle were like cult members. It required an unquestioning dedication to Palin. The all drank the Koo-Aid.
Gryphen: Did you have to pay anybody to get them to speak with you?
Dunn:
That’s a joke. No one was paid. The fact that anyone would claim that is another Palin scam and lie. Add it to the list. And it’s a very long list. The only one who has ever made money off the Palin scam is Palin herself.
Gryphen: Did anybody you interviewed have only positive things to say about Sarah Palin? And if so did they appear impaired in some way?
Dunn:
Two people I interviewed only had positive things to say about Palin. And I included their comments in the book. I would like to spend more time with each and push them on their perceptions. But I like them both very much. They like me. Or they did. And they probably think my book is too hard on her. Which is funny, because a few people have thought I was too easy on her. Which proves, for anyone considering writing yet another book on her, that you need to be true to yourself in the portrait you draw. You can’t worry what anyone else thinks. And I don’t.
Gryphen: Have you had any bad experiences with Palin supporters?
Dunn:
Yes, plenty. They’re entitled to their opinions. But I don’t really give them any juice and I refuse to engage it. And I’m not going to here.
Gryphen: Joe McGinniss is also writing a book about Sarah Palin, are you friends or mortal foes?
Dunn:
I have to chuckle at that. It was you and other Alaska bloggers who informally introduced me to Joe last summer, through mutual emails and the like. And we have struck up a friendship that has become very important in my life. We have many things in common and he has been a mentor to me. One thing is that I’m Italian (on my mother’s side) and I lived in Italy during the mid-1980s. And he wrote a great book about Italian soccer, The Miracle of Castel di Sangro. He speaks Italian and has an Italian sensibility. Who would have thought? Two writers with Irish names speaking Italian to one another. He is il mio fratello negro. I’ll let you figure out what it means. And I think in the end, our books will complement one another. And I am really looking forward to reading his book— though I simply will never embrace his passion for soccer. But the Palin sand box is big enough for plenty of shovels and pails. And I am sure there will be more.
Gryphen: Do you think Sarah Palin will run for President in 2012? If not, why not?
Dunn:
You know, several of my friends in Alaska, from across the political spectrum, made bets with me that Palin would win the presidency in 2012. Well her response to Tucson put a major damper on that dream. And I still think I will collect on that bet. Because let me say this to all her supporters: Sarah Palin cannot win the American presidency. Ever. She’s hated now Outside as much as she is hated in Alaska. Here’s my favorite graph about Palin:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/13/fav-palin_n_725513.html
The numbers tell the tale. And what’s fascinating is that ever since the Katie Couric interview, her favorability rating has been in steady descent. It has never moved the other direction once. And since Tucson it has been in even sharper decline. So the question is, even with those numbers will she run?
All of a sudden the planets have once again aligned in her favor. Trump got thrown out of the race. Huckabee dropped out, which creates a huge hole for Palin. Gingrich has self-immolated. Romney is made of cardboard. Pawlenty of recycled cardboard. Palin is the only one with any charisma or juice.
The Gallup poll indicated that she has the most name recognition of any candidate. I mean, how many people know who Mitch Daniels is? She will no doubt see this as a sign from God that a door has opened. Also.
The fact that she just sent out 400,000 letters to South Carolina this week indicates that she is still positioning herself for a run. She can’t win Iowa—she has no organization there—and she can’t win New Hampshire –where she is disliked by Republicans (see my book, wink)—but she can win in South Carolina, so if she enters the race there, well it’s a free for all, and with Huckabee out, well she can roll in the South…she plays to the Southern conservative evangelicals who have a real problem with a black president. And she is dynamic on the stump where she has a well-scripted speech that she can deliver to the throngs. So that’s a possible scenario where she winds up running. She is the anti-Obama. And she has a shot, albeit a long one, to win the Republican nomination. But the presidency? Never.
Gryphen: Do you intend to write more about Palin?
Dunn:
Right now, like most Alaskans, I am suffering from Palin fatigue. She may be suffering from Palin fatigue, too. So I may or may not. I was at work on a book about Bohemian culture in American history when I started the Palin book and I have already returned to working on it. But I am also considering writing a similar book about Palin’s buddy Glen Beck called “Snake Oil Man.” A couple of people have come to me with stories about him and I view him as a malignancy in American political discourse. So, too, do most credible Republican operatives. They can’t stand him. He and Palin tap into the same dark American sinister underbelly of fear and hatred and racism that fuels their huckster politics. And, of course, they snicker all the way to the bank. Theirs is really a disgusting presence in American political history.
Thanks for your time Geoffrey. You are a true journalist in the best sense of the word, and you have done a great service to your country with this book. The more light we shine on Sarah Palin the easier it will be for people to see her for what she really is, a very dangerous fraud.
Oh, and before I forget, thank you for the kind words that you wrote about me in "
The Lies of Sarah Palin: The Untold Story Behind Her Relentless Quest for Power
." I felt truly honored to be included among such an impressive cast of characters.
And folks, if you have not ordered Geoffrey's book, what are you waiting for?
As of this writing it is number two on the Amazon "
Hot New Releases in Political People Biographies" section. But with your help we can make it number one, as well as in a number of other categories too.
