It appears that both the Army and the Marines are concerned enough to at least investigate the situation.
Army officials said Tuesday they will investigate whether a Michigan defense contractor violated federal procurement rules by stamping references to Bible verses on combat rifle sights used by American forces to kill enemy fighters in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The Marine Corps, another major customer of the telescoping sights that allow troops to pinpoint targets day or night, says service acquisition officials plan to meet with the contractor, Trijicon of Wixom, Mich., to discuss future purchases of the company's gear.
Capt. Geraldine Carey, a Marine Corps spokeswoman, said Tuesday in an e-mailed statement that "we are aware of the issue and are concerned with how this may be perceived." Carey said Marine Corps acquisition officials plan to meet with Trijicon to discuss future buys of the company's sights. The statement did not say what the nature of those discussions would be.
However it does not appear that the people in charge of our two wars in ISLAMIC COUNTRIES really grasp the potential fallout.
A spokesman for U.S. Central Command, which manages military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, said the sights don't violate the ban on proselytizing because there's no effort to distribute the equipment beyond the U.S. troops who use them.
"This situation is not unlike the situation with U.S. currency," said the spokesman, Air Force Maj. John Redfield. "Are we going to stop using money because the bills have 'In God We Trust' on them? As long as the sights meet the combat needs of troops, they'll continue to be used."
Okay the comparisons between U.S. currency and death dealing weaponry is completely ridiculous. The only way the two would be in the same category would be if our soldiers in Afghanistan were stuffing dollar bills down the enemies throat until they suffocated!
Besides at least the phrase "In God we trust" could refer to Allah, and therefore appear much more benign to the people of Iraq and Afghanistan. It is much harder to explain away phrases like "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" and "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, 'I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life'". Especially when those references are stamped onto a gunsight that just helped an American soldier blow the brains out of an Afghan soldier from a hundred yards away.
Are you still not sure how badly this looks for the US military, and how dangerous it could be for our troops? Perhaps this will put it into perspective.
Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, says the Trijicon sights could give the Taliban and other enemy forces a propaganda tool: that American troops are Christian crusaders invading Muslim countries.
"I don't have to wonder for a nanosecond how the American public would react if citations from the Quran were being inscribed onto these U.S. armed forces gun sights instead of New Testament citations," Weinstein said. The foundation is a nonprofit organization opposed to religious favoritism within the military.
Weinstein said he has received complaints about the Scripture citations from active-duty and retired members of the military. He said he couldn't identify them because they fear retaliation.
I am hoping that after all of this attention the President will address this situation in the next week or so. This kind of religious and ethnic insensitivity should not be a part of our country's message to the world any longer.
John Redfield needs a kick in the ass.
ReplyDeleteAs long as the combat sites are insulting to service personnel who do not agree with the religious message, the needs of those combat troops are not being met. The comparison to dollar bills is ridiculous and makes me wonder if the good major is in need of further classroom education on the United States Constitution.
It looks like they're not all on the same page, because the "Marine Corps spokeswoman says ..." but a "spokesman for U.S. Central Command" says something else. So, something is going to be changed. It looks as though the people at the service level want the inscriptions removed. It may just happen with new weapons, because to modify everything out there would be disruptive and expensive.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, Americans send solar-powered bibles to Haiti:
ReplyDelete"But these aren't just any Bibles; they're solar-powered audible Bibles that can broadcast the holy scriptures in Haitian Creole to 300 people at a time".
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/19/2796032.htm
Redfield is lying.
ReplyDeleteThe rifles are being used by Iraqi and Afghanistan soldiers as was reported in earlier stories.
Maybe, just maybe Air Force Major John Redfield is one of those in the command chain who is in favor of pushing evangelical Xhristianity down our troops and uses intimidation to do so.
ReplyDeleteHe sure sounds adamant that he knows what's what. I wouldn't want to serve under him if he thinks there is no problem with this issue.
No disrespect to Major Redfield intended unless he is part of the problem. It's just that you'd think a Major would be more sensitive to the issues that could affect the safety and well-being of the troops, wouldn't you?
This could not only put the servicemen and servicewomen in more danger, but what is this about "the sights don't violate the ban on proselytizing because there's no effort to distribute the equipment beyond the U.S. troops who use them..." ????
ReplyDeleteWhat about the troops who use them? At the very least, you are proselytizing to them.
I agree that there needs to be someone lucid enough who truly understands the ramifications of this from all angles.
Frankly, I don't know what I would do if I were in the military and assigned this sight. Not having it could mean life or death, yet, as a Jew, I would find it odd to be out there in what appears to be the name of Christianity.
It sounds to me like this is a known secret that was just ignored.
What chutzpah on the part of the manufacturer! If the man who started this were alive, he might just feel that people were picking on Christianity as usual and not consider the morale of some of the soldiers required to use it - let alone the perception of the folks who are its target.
Disgusting..
"the sights don't violate the ban on proselytizing because there's no effort to distribute the equipment beyond the U.S. troops who use them"
ReplyDeleteYo, Constitution to Spokesman for US Central COmmand: distributing bible references to US troops is proselytizing to the troops. Since when does the prohibition against proselytizing contain a special exemption that says it's okay to target Americans in uniform?
Simply outrageous. It wouldn't surprise me if the deal to purchase these 'Bible Scopes' was made during Dubya's administration.
ReplyDeleteLet's hope that the military leadership who make purchasing decisions demand that Trijicon remove these Bible references as soon as possible.
Many Haitians are Christians, specifically Catholics. Also, their own indigenous and historic religious practices incorporate Christianity. No need to freak out about exploitative proselytizing. It's been there a long time already. Most Haitians I know in this country are Christian.
ReplyDeleteThe US military has a lot of cleaning up to do. First the equipment, then the officers.
ReplyDeleteFrosty, it was. This shit started in 2003 and we all knew who was pResident then.
ReplyDeleteThis is the perfect way of getting god to kill for America. Sending god down the sights of a gun to the infidel couldn't be more direct. And let's face it, the killing is certainly justified isn't it! Isn't it?
ReplyDeleteI would be equally offended if the Treasury Department started printing scripture on our currency. It is wrong when one religion is favored over any other. It is best to leave all religion out of government. God does not take sides; He is supposed to love all mankind.
ReplyDeleteOne word - Rumsfield.
ReplyDeleteHaitians are in dire need of food and clean water and some help rebuilding their homes and business. Solar-powered Bibles can come after that's done.
If they wanted to, the military could stifle this very easily.
ReplyDeleteThey tell the contractor that he takes the biblical verses off of the sights or they will not purchase them. It's a simple matter to change the serial numbers. Won't cost anything except for current stock. Future stock can easily be marked with serial numbers sans scriptures.
No way the company is going to take a chance on losing that amount of money. They should be grateful they weren't caught until now. They fix the serial numbers to keep their military contracts if that's what it takes.
How this is handled will tell us if we still have a democracy or our military is now a theocracy, while our Congress becomes more and more fascist.
Maybe this is part of the reason I read this morning that Al Queda is growing and spreading.
ReplyDeleteGiven the inroads the evangelicals have made into the Air Force, Maj. John Redfield is more likely part of the military's religious problem than not. I do, however, find some common ground with him - I agree w/ his analogy that the biblical inscriptions on military rifle sights is like having "In God We Trust" on our currency. Neither one belongs in either place. Whenever you see "In God We Trust" on American currency, it should be recognized for exactly what it is - a sober reminder that the Christians of this country have long been relentless in their insidious attempts to insinuate their religion into our secular government. Another reminder of the insidious encroachment of religion into our secular traditions is the addition of "Under God" to our Pledge of Allegiance. My position on Separation is (necessarily) simple: The final step toward a theocracy will be no more wrong in direction nor more wrongheaded than the steps which we allow to precede it - including the first one.
ReplyDeleteIt always surprises me that these extremist Christians don't mind looking like screaming assholes.
ReplyDeleteI mean, why in the world would anybody WANT to be like them?
Can't be hypocritical regarding the reality of help for Haiti... It is, in fact, religious groups who have given them the most help over the years. You may not like it, you may want it to be strictly secular, but there it is. The Haitians are fairly religious people on the whole, primarily Christian. You may not like it, you may wish they weren't so "misguided", but there it is, too. For all anyone knows, they have been asking for Bibles. And for what it's worth, I really think saying we live in a Theocracy is ludicrous.
ReplyDeleteHey Gen. Redfield...you're a TOOL!
ReplyDeleteThanks, Gryphen, for the update on this issue.
ReplyDeleteIf the practice to put scriptures on sights began in 2003, I am shocked it continued for so many years and ignored by the military before such information hit the MSM. All military personnel swear an oath to support and uphold the Constitution of the United States of America.
Since separation of church and state is one of those freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States of America, such oath has been broken.
No soldier should feel threatened for stepping forward in an effort to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America.
When I worked for a NASA contractor here at Johnson Space Center in Houston, TX...the NASA monitors who oversaw the contract would put bible verses beneath their signatures on emails. I never understood how they got away with that.... If a contractor/federal employee complained there was the possibility of losing the contract or receive poor grading or worse.
ReplyDeleteThese same NASA monitors leaned on contractors to employee there children during the summer breaks.
The Feds don't police their own...but tell contractors just what to do. What a racket.
The New Zealand government is having them removed from all their army weapons immediately. Wish the US army would too.
ReplyDeleteThe right wants to display the Ten Commandments in every Courthouse in the nation.
ReplyDeleteAnd, it seems that I recall hearing somewhere that these ten little rules to live by include...not killing and not using the Lord's name in vain. It seems to me that these friggin' lunatics have managed to violate both of those commandments in one fell swoop...
Then, if MordacP at 8:12 is reporting accurately,these arms are falling into Iraqi and Afghanistani soldiers' hands. They, no doubt, are clueless as to what is contained in the serial numbers--but, that doesn't change the fact that these guns (with the scripture reference on them) are used to kill American troops.
That little twist sounds an awful lot like divine retribution.
I think maybe it's time to do some serious housecleaning in the ranks of the military--it's time for a few of these folks to take early retirement.
also, somebody told me today that this has been done in one form or another since world war one !!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDelete