Robert Jeffress, Southern Baptist Convention leader and pastor of the 10,000-member First Baptist Church of Dallas, has never endorsed a political candidate, but at the Values Voters Summit on Friday, he announced that he was throwing his support behind Rick Perry. “I don’t think Michele Bachmann is going to win the nomination. I don’t believe that Herman Cain is going to win the nomination. I think it’s going to come down to a Perry-Romney fight,” he told me shortly before taking the stage to introduce Perry to the crowd. “And I felt like at this time, it was critical for a pastor to tell other Christians why it is imperative to vote for a Christian rather than a non-Christian.”
In other words, Jeffress, one of the first major religious right figures to choose sides in the GOP primary, wants to make sure that the Republican Party doesn’t nominate a Mormon. Romney’s religion, he says, “is going to play a huge role. It’s a role that many people are unwilling to speak about.” He, however, is more than willing. “Quite frankly, part of my hesitancy in supporting Governor Romney is I do not want to give credibility to a cult like Mormonism, which I believe having a Mormon president would do,” he says.
After Perry’s speech—a fairly underwhelming iteration of his standard stump address—Jeffress expressed similar sentiments to reporters gathered at Washington’s Omni Shoreham hotel for the religious right confab. Soon, the story of Perry’s anti-Mormon ally was all over the place. This creates a challenge for the Texas governor, but it also gives him an opportunity to capitalize on some evangelicals’ antipathy to the Church of Latter-day Saints.
Look let's be honest. ALL religions start off as a cult.
The only real difference between a cult and a religion is the number of believers, and who is disseminating the information. I doubt even the most devout Christian could effectively argue that Christ's little band of apostles were not considered a cult by the Jews of that time who eventually decided to take steps to rid themselves of the annoying rabbi with the God complex.
Whatever did happen to that little cult that could anyhow?
I find it even more humorous that all of this drama occurred at the Values Voters Summit. A place that neither Rick Perry nor Mitt Romney should even have bothered to show up to. At least not according to these results:
Value Voter Summit Straw Poll Results
Ron Paul – 37 percent
Herman Cain – 23 percent
Rick Santorum – 16 percent
Rick Perry – 8 percent
Michele Bachmann – 8 percent
Mitt Romney – 4 percent
Newt Gingrich – 3 percent
Undecided – 1 percent
Jon Huntsman – 0 percent
But hey, at least Rick Perry is not a loser AND a fake Christian, now is he?
That value voters summit is a collection of crazy people.Bryan Fisher,baseball saved America by switching to 7th inning God Bless America because it is a prayer and God answered it by muslims not attacking America since 9/11.More the whole thing is fucking nuts,These assholes gotta be stopped.They are trying to impose their will on all of us.If they aren't stopped this country will be ruined.
ReplyDeleteOne of the many threats to keep you from leaving the Mormon Church is that your family and other loved ones will not be allowed to ever associate with you again. Or they too will be excommunicated. That's a cult.
ReplyDeleteSo Robert Jeffress "felt it was critical at this time, for a pastor to tell other Christians why it is imperative to vote for a Christian rather than a non-Christian."
ReplyDeleteWoo doggies! Ain't he special?
Well, Mr. Jeffress, at this time, this aging Christian feels it is imperative that your church lose its tax exemption, and you be charged with every possible offense against good manners.
Well, I have to object to saying there's little difference between any religion and a cult. Most mainstream religions do not use cult tactics. It's not a closed society. There's no starvation and mind control. The tenets of the religion are offered and you can take it or leave it. Giving money is optional. You can switch denominations without being demonized. I grew up Presbyterian and now am UCC and have sampled other Christian churches but not Evangelical except for on Billy Graham crusade in my teens. I have my own opinions about Mormons. Some churches stress recruiting and mission work which is where it gets tricky. I do think the Christian community (mainstream) has evolved in how they do missionary work. IMHO
ReplyDeleteBy the way, that poll shows the Value Voters are about politics, not religion.
ReplyDeleteIf Mormons are a cult, then 10,000 members of one church is a cult as well, making Jeffress a wealthy man with the tithing that's required. How do 10,000 followers in one megachurch not equal an evangelical cult? Plus they preach that church and state should not be separate. Dominionism is a cult. They are scary since they are not the same Christians I grew up knowing.
ReplyDeleteHa...the GOP is so screwed, and I'm loving every second of the meltdown. Of course you are right..what is Catholicism except a cult following a Pope not chosen by God, but by men. What is the evangelical movement if not a cult of rich whites getting their marching orders from people like this nut? I had an interesting conversation with a Presbyterian about these mega-churches. I am Brethren, so am against all conflict, and she knows that. She told me that she had visited some mega-churches in our area and was very unnerved by their TELLING people what the Bible says, telling them what to think, and telling them how much money to give to be saved. She is a firm believer in letting people read the Bible for themselves and make decisions. Remember when all Catholic services and texts were in Latin? They made sure that very few could actual read or interpret for themselves. Cult. All the way.
ReplyDeleteYou misspelled Rick Perry's name in your post title. Kinda looks like "Rick Pervy" to me at first glance. Wait...never mind.
ReplyDeleteI was born and raised in the Mormon faith. Like Catholicism, there are many good people, trying to live decent lives.
ReplyDeleteIn my 20's I started to see how nutty the claims of "The Book of Mormon" were, and how the "official" history of the church had been whitewashed and edited to leave out the nasty bits. Today I am a happy Ex-Mormon.
Although not as openly greedy for money and secular prestige as the Christian Dominionists, the Mormons come in a close second or third.
Both Perry and Romney are weasels that publicly profess belief in Jesus, but their policies have NOTHING to do with his teachings.
I'd rather have an atheist President.
ReplyDeleteALL religions are cult like, there is no difference.
ReplyDeleteRick Perry has been exposed as a bigot. Bill Maher said it best on Friday - “Overtly racist bullshit thinly painted over. Honestly, could anyone have written a better metaphor for the modern Republican party?”
I went to high school with Robert. He is always injecting himself into the middle of issues. The gays here can't stand him and have protested at his church. I think he likes to draw attention to himself just like in high school when he ws student body president. What he fails to think about is that little thing about separation of church and state. One's religion should not play a role in politics, but the religious right always makes sure it does. How stupid. Jesus did not get involved in the politics of His day. These people today are so silly, they want to take over, which Jesus did not. Jesus always said His kingdome was not of this world. But these fringe Christians want to make this world their kingdom as they demonstrate every single day. I am a believer, but I quit going to church years ago. I got really tired of the bs, really tired of being told what to think, who to vote for, etc. Keep all religion out of politics. It does not belong there. I think I will send Robert an email at the church and tell him exactly that. Not that it will do any good, but this kind of stuff turns people away from Christianity in droves.
ReplyDeleteI'm a bit perplexed as having lived several years next doors to a very cool Mormon family in SF Mr. Jeffress categorises them as being non-Christian.
ReplyDeleteThe Mormon family I knew were very much Christians, attending church every week, celebrating the birth of Christ every year and honouring lent in a more stringent manner than the Catholic family who lived across the street..
What, exactly, is Mr. Jeffress definition of 'Christian'???
-Oz
The author of the book?
ReplyDeleteJack B. Worthy?
Jack be dick.
I have lived in Utah (as a non-Mormon) and saw firsthand through friends what Mormonism is all about. You can bet that the Mormons also will be talking in church about supporting Mitt Romney (if he is a member in good standing). What many people don't know is that the LDS church is the fastest-growing in the world and the secondmost wealthy after the Catholic Church. If they get mobilized, the evangelicals better watch out.
ReplyDeleteAnon 4:26, you are just wrong in your claims. That's not a church policy. It's the CULTURE that keeps the community very insular and tightknit (and narrowminded, in my view).
All that said, I don't want to seem to be an apologist for the Mormon church. I would be very unhappy with anyone in the White House who blurs the lines between church and state. And I am very uncomfortable with any church that pursues proselytizing with such zeal.
Yep, Perry's track record of lining his pockets while in State gov't and neglecting his not so wealthy constituents as they suffer from poverty, lack of healthcare and inadequate housing and safety, truly reflects his Christian values. If you can't scratch his back, you're not on his acts of kindness radar or prayer list. His Christian spiritualism can be reduced to a bumper sticker that reads 'Ni....head'... which says it all.
ReplyDeleteSeems to me that Jeffress just wants to ride the Perry Glory Train to his new found 'riches'. Ch.M.A.
Was wondering how long it would take P-Rick to start slinging the Mormon thing around.
ReplyDeleteAs wonderful as this country can be the problem with religion in America is the two cynical ways religion is used by so many:
TO.GET.MONEY
TO.GET.VOTES
Just doesn't happen in Canada. Religion is a private matter.
Anyone who has the bad judgment to even ~try~ trotting it out during an election cycle of any consequence immediately becomes The Douchebag in the race.
And loses.
The day religion stops being used in such a scurrilous manner in America is the day it will start moving forward, socially & economically.
~Canuck~
You know what?
ReplyDeleteThere is more proof for UFO's than there is for Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ was created by humans and each "believer" then gives Jesus the attributes he or she wants. For example, if you believe Jesus visited and preached in America, you can be a Mormon. If you don't, you can be a Baptist.
But it's all bullshit in the end because nobody named Jesus Christ was ever the son of God, or was crucified or resurrected himself after three days.
Those are all attributes of previous heathen gods that were "borrowed" for Jesus when he was built up into being way back when.
Now we have "My [imaginary] Jesus is better than YOUR[imaginary] Jesus"! intramural Christianity fights.
I'd bring popcorn and pull up a chair except these fuckers are so very dangerous.
Maybe being an atheist should be a requirement to hold any political office.
ReplyDeleteI knew this sort of thing would happen sooner or later. The funny thing is that it's not helping Perry much, maybe because he's scaring off the fundie Tea Party people with his stance on immigration. I love the confusion and chaos in the Republican party.
ReplyDeleteOh, and by the way, Joe McG has a new post up. He points out that even though the situation in the Republican race seemed tailor-made for Palin's entrance, he doesn't think her decision not to run is because of his book and any potential icebergs out there. He thinks she's just a lazy coward. But I disagree with him there. She is surely a lazy coward, but she can also be a lazy coward who is also afraid of his book and the full disclosure of babygate.
Time to make Sarah face all her fears.
Very telling, don't you think - Rick Perry's supporters recycling the religious version of "he's not one of us" against Mitt Romney? I don't like Mormons but I despise the Evangelical Christians even more!
ReplyDeleteI like none of the GOP/Libertarian candidates but if it came down to Rick or Mitt - I'll take smart and educated over dumb and ignorant any day. And I would never support a candidate who participates in public events parading around and waving guns in the air!
Of course Mitt is reaping the same kind of smearing he dishes out by implying our President is a "Socialist" - the difference being Mitt does know this is just smearing an opponent to get votes and it's likely Perry really believes his B.S.
Rick Perry is almost as dumb as Sarah Palin and is just a Palin with a dick. Like Palin and so many of the Right Wing thump their Bibles and espouse the "Christian family values" yet as far as how closely their lifestyles actually match their rhetoric it proves out to be pure hypocrisy and farce . . . unless infidelity, whoring, and pimping are indeed essential values for Evangelical Christian life.
All of these bozos have overplayed their destructive false memes - the majority of Americans do NOT want what they have to offer, in fact are horrified by what's going on in the political arena.
Come on, now. We all know "cult" is a pejorative.
ReplyDeleteSo no, I'll bite, I am not going to say anyone who follows Jesus Christ - whether in his time or now - is in a cult.
I won't even say Mormons are part of a cult, regardless of the stories above. Families have split up over religious/non-religious beliefs and lifestyles for CENTURIES. I think Scientology is a cult, but tell that to Kirstie Allie or Tom Cruise (haha).
Those who have negative feelings about religion in general are always going to throw this stuff around. I think Atheists belong to a cult, how about that? They have no more proof for their contentions than I do for my beliefs. I went to hear the amazing Dalai Lama speak a few months ago, and I am sorry if we are talking cults why not he and his followers too? It's just a silly argument.
Whatever. It IS very interesting that these guys are all turning on each other re: their respective religious practices. It was only a matter of time. Perry hopes to scare Evangelicals off Romney, and he probably is tapping into very real prejudices.
I have a Jewish sister-in-law who goes ballistic talking about Hasidim. She just cannot stand them. They are an embarrassment to her, I guess.
Perry knows that these intense Mormons make some Christians very uncomfortable.
I don't think any of this matters, because it's going to be Romney and Cain or Huntsman, probably. I know Obama would never make an issue of someone's religion, so this will all settle come national election time.
If you want to see how the Mormon church works and how much of a cult it is, read "The Mormon Murders." I have many friends AND family on one side who are Mormon. They are good, kind people. By the same token, I believe they have been deluded by the church. It is, however, easy to be fooled if it is how you have been raised and the only religion you have known. They truly believe that if they are excommunicated, they will lose their immortal soul.
ReplyDeleteBTW, the fundamentalist Mormons are the ones who don't allow members to associate with family who have left the church. I know many families with children who no longer belong to the Mormon church. Their families are intact. My own mother is an example and she was born and raised in Salt Lake City. We have always associated with the Mormon side of the family tree.
ReplyDelete4:26AM, not quite. They can still contact you and they really do it more since they try and get you back into the cult. What you cannot do is attend the services in the temple, including marriages and other rites. The shunning stuff is more a Christian thing than a Mormon thing. (posted by an ex-Mormon who is contacted by more family members now than when I was practicing...)
ReplyDeleteOzMud, gotta warn you that while most Mormons outside of Utah are some of the nicest folks you can find, in Utah it's a whole 'nuther ball of wax. It used to be up until about 20 years ago you could rarely find any business not run by Mormons, especially in the more rural areas and in Happy Valley (Provo for those not from UT). It changed a lot when a ton of folks from California and Nevada started to "infiltrate" the state. SLC is pretty gay friendly and Park City is almost a separate planet given that it is a tourist town and has a large population of no Mormons. I am so damned glad I don't live anywhere near that place.
ReplyDeleteA pastor feels he must intervene to tell Christians not to vote for a non-Christian candidate.
ReplyDeleteHow very Christ-like.
There is total secrecy around the $$ that all Mormon families must tithe each month. NO TRANSPARENCY or oversight about where the $$ goes. Mormon women churn out the babies, the home schooling, the church housecleaning, and must make ends meet on next to nothing cause the church takes so much.
ReplyDeleteThen at age 18 their sons are taken from them and held nearly incommunicado for two years, no matter what their level of maturity.
At least most churches have some oversight over how money is spent, but NOT this secret society.
I knew this would get ugly as soon as Romney announced, and I think the "Christians" are holding onto their biggest ammunition about Mormonism until later in the game.
ReplyDeleteMormonism is very cultish. I have quite a few friends who are Mormon and an earlier poster is entirely correct; if you leave Mormonism your other Mormon relatives have to shun you. If you get married in a Mormon church, your non-Mormon relatives will not be allowed to attend the actual ceremony.
There are some very curious beliefs the Mormons don't talk about, such as their beliefs about black people. Past church teachings state that black skin is a curse, and that the reward for faithful black Mormons in the afterlife is to have white skin. I do not know if they still teach this, but I had a Mormon friend who admitted to me that this was one of the church teachings.
The Mormons only renounced plural marriages for political reasons, but fundamentalist Mormons - such as Warren Jeffers sect - still practice it.
If you want to read a really interesting book on Mormonism, "A Gathering of Saints" is the best. Mormonism isn't unlike the Catholic church in terms of power mongering and cover-ups.
The beliefs are really, really bizarre and if Romney prevails and enters the general election it should make for some interesting conversation.
Now, let me just issue a caveat here. I know plenty of very nice Mormons. i don't have a problem with them and I know that secretly they are not really on board with some of what the church does. I don't know if Romney is and of the Republican field he and the other Mormon candidate - Huntsman - are the brightest of the lot. But I think their religion will be used against them because it's a target-rich topic.
Does this really surprise anyone? The religious right ultimately does not want 'one nation under God,' they want 'one nation under the Assemblies of God'--Protestant, evangelical in nature and born again, with a touch of dominionism thrown in for good measure. If any of these provincial, mean-spirited thinkers should actually ever succeed in attaining the presidency, watch the fireworks as they argue ideological minutiae with their congressional lackeys while trying to craft policy and pass legislation that will adequately express, and enforce upon others, the particular interpretation of scripture allowed by their church. Makes me think of the famous 'guy on a bridge' joke by Emo Phillips: (from http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2005/sep/29/comedy.religion)
ReplyDelete@4:26AM
ReplyDeleteActually, most religions have a policy of excommunication for their members who transgress their rules. They only vary in their degree of enactment.
So by your thinking, that would make ALL religions cults. Right?
And, of course, Fox News doesn't think religion should be an issue in the Republican primaries. Such wonderful news. Unfortunately, their duplicity is again very apparent since religion was a huge piece of their game when calling Obama a Muslim and when they played the tape of President Obama's pastor on 24/7 videotape. The only religion that matters is the religion of their chosen candidate. They have already let Perry blow in the wind.
ReplyDeleteAnd, of course, Fox News doesn't think religion should be an issue in the Republican primaries. Such wonderful news. Unfortunately, their duplicity is again very apparent since religion was a huge piece of their game when calling Obama a Muslim and when they played the tape of President Obama's pastor on 24/7 videotape. The only religion that matters is the religion of their chosen candidate. They have already let Perry blow in the wind.
ReplyDeleteI've been waiting until this cult against cult surfaced. The Mormons have the exact agenda as the Dominionists who are behind Perry. This will be a battle between extremists for the "Soul of the Country." Either way, the country loses. Having either a Mormon theocracy or a Dominionist theocracy would spell equal disaster for the country. They share the same values for the most part.
ReplyDeleteAnother religious war begins.
The Ides of March is a great movie and hits the nail on the head of religion and politics.
ReplyDeleteI love it !! The GOP has let the religious reich take over and they continue to eat themselves alive! This not only assures an Obama second term, but it guarentees a democratic winner in 2016!
ReplyDeleteThe GOP has kind of rat-fucked themselves. They have pandered to the strident hard right buffoons of their base for so long, now it's impossible to stop the momentum of the idiot mob. The feckless tribe of racist, self righteous cousin humpers have shown up with pitchforks and torches and the GOP has no idea what to do with them.
ReplyDeleteThe most racist teabaggers will no sooner vote for Herb Cain than they would President Obama, and for the exact same reason. They can bitch all they want about not being racist, the truth of the matter is that is was around their incipient racial animus that the teabaggers first coalesced. They won't vote for Cain either as P or VP.
The fundagelical teabaggers will heed the words of Jeffress and other fundie pastoral peawits and will NOT vote for Romney or Huntsman. They view Mormonism as a cult would consider voting for a Mormon on par with voting for a Muslim - you know, like President Obama. They are bigoted assholes.
"Hey, your sky wizard is fake but MY sky wizard is almighty and the ONLY TRUE GOD!"
I still say that the door is wide open for a third party candidate to mount either a thinly veiled "white power" candidacy or a funagelical "Party of God" run. Hell, we might even get one of each.
Could one dumbass former partial governor of Alaska hear the call of Godhisownself opening a new door for her to run after all?
Don't rule it out. She is THAT stupid.
lots of people call Herman Cain a pastor, but is he really?
ReplyDeleteDid he ever study theology?
He's an associate minister at a Baptist church. What does this mean exactly? Is he a fill in for sermons when the resident pastor is on vacation?
Now for something about the First Baptist Church of Dallas.
ReplyDeleteIt is without doubt the wealthiest church in Dallas, owning several city blocks of prime downtown property. Since the early days of Rev. Criswell it has been the haven of the monied class in Dallas.
Homophobic? Well known, without question. Gays not welcome within. Oh, if the church leaders only knew...
Class-oriented? Definitely -- poor people not welcome. If you don't have the money to dress the part then you are segregated as to where you can sit in the church. The monied class have a special status and recognition there.
Robert Jeffress should stay out of politics and just keep sucking on the money tit of his member benefactors. He's good at that.
Last week, Seattle local networks started airing, "I am Mormon.
ReplyDeleteFirst thought...
Trying legitimize Mitt.
Didn't we just go through this shit?
I'd like my Democracy please, hold the religion,I get that elsewhere!
Anonymous 4:26 AM --
ReplyDelete"Old world" Mennonites do the same thing. It's called shunning.
Pastor Jeffress proves the case for separation of church and state.
ReplyDeleteSince he is speaking as the leader of his nonprofit organization, I want to know when the Treasury Department will strip him of his nonexempt status.
4:26, I hear the same thing from relatives of Pentacostals.
ReplyDeleteAnon 4:26, You can probably find fringe members of any group who sound cultish. I work with a former Mormon (and have known this person since the late 80s). We speak openly of religion and politics and he has never said any such thing regarding his friends and family who remain in the Church.
ReplyDelete@6:52,
ReplyDeleteI agree, as brain-washing is the distinguishing feature of belonging to a cult and you could make the argument that literal interpretation of the Bible represents a break with known reality and an attempt to enforce a new reality through repetitive mental indoctrination.
Interesting recent headlines related to excommunication. In Britain, a group of 'disfellowshipped' Jehovah's Witnesses have engaged the police over a publication from the church saying that those who leave or who are forced out are 'mentally diseased.' The group wants the organization sued under Britain's religious anti-hate laws.
Here in the States, there's been a rash of Amish on Amish violence (seriously) with excommunicated members coming back and cutting the beards and hair of current members to humiliate them. The police in Ohio are treating these incidences as assaults.
Kind of does the heart good to see narrow-minded religious bullies get it right back for a change.
Anon 4:38, thank you for your very thoughtful humble opinion!
ReplyDeleteI understand that Mormons believe in Christ and all, but I think that when you think that that Christ descended from a being from another planet, as the Mormons believe, you're kind of outside the realm of real Christians, imo. Also, Utah is very lovely, I'm sure, but it's NOT the promised land...
ReplyDeleteTo me the pertinant question here is: Just when is the First Baptist Church of Dallas going to loose its tax exempt status by talking politics at the pulpit?
ReplyDeleteAfter prop h8 and all the mormons did to people who are, or love anyone in the lgbt, I whole-heartedly believe I am with 4:31 am.
ReplyDeleteThe republican religion ratfuck is just getting started.
ReplyDeleteAppearing on CNN Sunday, both Republican presidential candidates Herman Cain and Michele Bachmann repeatedly dodged questions on whether fellow candidate Mitt Romney was a Christian....
CNN’s Candy Crowley asked Cain and Bachmann if they agreed that Romney was not a Christian.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/09/cain-bachmann-refuse-to-say-if-romney-is-a-christian/
I remain amazed that Jon Huntsman does not do better in the ratings. He is far more qualified than many on that Republican list and comes across so much better.
ReplyDeleteCain scares the hell out of me as do many others on their list.
President Obama will be re elected and I plan on voting for him again.
No way a Mormon gets the nomination. These people are all crony capitalists. They are not just a religion, they are a culture. You can leave the faith, but your friends and family believe that Satan has got his hooks in you and they will aggressively fight to save you. Families split up over this shit. Their founder, Joseph Smith, was a convicted charlatan, womanizer, and charismatic grifter. The LDS are not taught their true history, and it truly is fascinating reading. The Mountain Meadows Massacre should be on everyone's "must research" list. They might believe in a version of Christ, but be considered Christians, no.
ReplyDeleteIf American churches refuse to be dismissed politically ~ then they should ALL pay taxes.
ReplyDelete... income AND property tax.
(Retroactive to the '60s)
MickeyMusing at 7:39:
ReplyDeleteHilarious way to put it: they believe in 'one nation under the Assemblies of God'. Very accurate, too. This would make a good tweet or bumper sticker.
Mormons believe Jesus and Satan are brothers, and there is also the magic underwear. However, as people, most of them are pleasant and law-abiding, and seem to live their faith by demonstrating better family values than the evangelical crowd.
The thought of any candidate's religion being criticized by another candidate or one of his/her public backers is scary. I can't imagine what the Perry crowd would have to say if a Jew were to run for president, and I include Jesus and Paul in my statement. Of course, neither of them would have ever considered pursuing such a folly, since to do so would violate biblical teachings: the Kingdom of God is an invisible, internal, and eternal kingdom, not a visible, external, and temporal one.
How I long for the day when people lived their faith – in a good way – and kept their mouths shut about it, whether or not they were running for office. The righties are demonstrating for us why the Constitution prohibits any religious test for office, and how religious wars get started in the first place. Obviously, loud vocalizing of "my god is better than your god" is merely a very convenient way to avoid the obvious truth that I am not better than you.
A great book about growing up Mormon is Leaving the Saints by Martha Beck. It reads like a thriller. If you like Joe McGinnis you'll love this page turner.
ReplyDeleteTime for a poll:
ReplyDeleteWhich Republican candidate will have a supporter bring up the Mountain Meadows Massacre? Maybe throw it out like "Has the Mormon Church forsaken Jihad in the name of Smith yet?". You know it's coming.
Which candidate will be the first to directly use it as an attack on Romney?
I think it will be Huckabee who brings it up first. He's a supporter of anyone except Huntsman and Romney.
Balzafier--you are wrong about most religions having excommunication. Most mainstream Protestant churches do not in any way ex-communicate people!
ReplyDeleteA bit about Robert Jeffress:
ReplyDeleteHe was the pastor of First Baptist Church of Wichita Falls, Tx, before he got the job in Dallas.
During his reign here he got on his high horse about two books in the public library - "Rachel Has Two Mommies" and "Daddy's Roommate" and went on rants about them during his Sunday services which were on TV. Some church member had drawn these books to his attention.
He then checked them out and refused to return them. So community members donated a bunch of them to the library to spite him. When the library had about 40of each, they refused to accept more of them. They had them on special reserve, but did NOT remove the books from the library.
Jeffress was relentless and then there were several meetings with community members testifying for and against the books.
One of my old friends, now deceased, carried the books with her as she was testifying about the value of these books and how they should remain in the library. When people were waiting to get in one man went up to her and said,"Are these the books they are going to discuss?" Go figure...a Jeffress' follower, no doubt.
Anyway, the ACLU was called in and a lawsuit took place. The city had to pay a $25,000 fine. But "the Banty Rooster" (AKA Jeffress) sure didn't pay the fine.
He sure knows how to suck the money out of the congregation. They built a huge new church under his leadership. Many sermons about the need to give more money to pay for this church (my husband watched these Sunday sermons on TV).
There are other examples of his lack of compassion, but this is already too long. No, we are not Baptists and don't approve of the things they teach, but they seem to have a much nicer minister now.
Oh, yes, Jeffress is sure against gays, but doesn't seem to realize there are gay animals too. (I've personally been around two gay dogs.) I guess their owners read one of those two books to those dogs - do you suppose? HA
Don't these idiots realize how dangerous a theocracy is?
ReplyDeleteThen, too, look at the root of Mormonism - Joseph Smith, a liar and opportunist. It would have taken a helluva lot of gold leaf to write the Book of Mormon, and conveniently lost...meanwhile those of his followers who refused to give up polygamy are nothing but a sex cult, thinly disguised with religion.
ReplyDeleteChristianity is in a very real way a cult or a tribe of Jewish.
ReplyDeleteJesus never renounced his faith or his genetic heritage. Christians worship a Jew and the God of the Jews.
So how can we not be an estranged cult of Judaism who follow the teachings of a radical Jewish teacher, leader, possibly Rabbi?
Wikipedia: "The word cult pejoratively refers to a group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre."
You gonna tell me that drinking transmogrified human flesh and drinking transmogrified human blood isn't abnormal and bizarre, much less rising from the dead.
Christians really aren't in much of a position to stand in judgement of other people's faiths.
Not with our beliefs and our history of slaughter and violence.
I'm embarassed to admit that I fell for the Mormon religion when I was a newly divorced single parent of young children.
ReplyDeleteIt seemed on the surface to be clean cut, no drinking, no smoking, family values, hard working.
I was never a drinker or a smoker. I wanted desparately to have a "good family" and I was a workaholic. Seemed to be a great fit.
I was a member for 4 years - but never learned all of the true beliefs of the church. I had many "callings" which required me to work with the children in the primary. That kept me from the serious religious instruction.
After 4 years, I asserted my "right" to go to the temple as a faithful member who paid full tithes and obeyed the word of wisdom etc. It was frowned against because I was not leaving to serve a mission or to get married. These are the two times normally that a member is permitted to go through the temple for their "endowments". (when you get the funny underwear)
I was advised not to go, but I persisted in my right to.
The day I went through the temple was my last day of being a Mormon.
The temple rites (during the 80's) included threats of death of anyone who talked about the temple outside of the temple. The markings on the undergarments matched up to how they would penalized you for doing so. They talked about cutting your throat from ear to ear, stabbing you in the heart, disembowing you through your navel and breaking your kneecap.
As they stated this things, they would smile freakishly.
I understand that they removed these comments as part of the temple ceremony in the late 80's due to foreign converts not liking the words.
Funny, how most of the American Mormons didn't mind it at all.
This is a psychological game - to use it especially at a time of a marriage or before going on a mission. Two times when you are making a separate long time commitment.
Can you imagine anyone on their honeymoon talking to their new spouse about the strange temple rituals? Just as you begin a life as a couple, are you going to start questioning the religion you both claim to be true? What about the belief that you are marrried for eternality and your children will be sealed with you in heaven (if only you have this temple marriage).
When going on a mission, you have agreed to give up 18 months of your life, you have fiancially sacafriced to pay for the mission - your family, friends and ward are counting on you to do this - and then you have this strange temple experience. On the mission they keep you so occupied by scheduling your days around scripture studies, and teaching that you don't have the time to wonder about how you felt during the temple.
Then they use the old emperero's clothes--saying the temple ritual makes sense if you have a pure heart, if you don't understand or are troubled by it - it's because you are not pure. Who's going to admit that they are not pure?
So people just smile through the death threats in the temple and praise it as being so "spiritual".
Nice thing about this, is my Mormon mother is offended by the nut-job evangelical who was on FOX calling Mormons a cult. It's a small wedge within the religious right, but a wedge nonetheless.
ReplyDeleteSad thing is Mormons would support an evangelical as a christian leader, but evangelicals would prefer to piss on the Mormon.
I've always said, if we gave half the country to the religious right to rule as they saw fit, they'd be in perpetual civil war.
The Southern Baptists should be careful who they call out for "cult-like" behavior. Those loons put Al Mohler in the Presidency of Southern Seminary in Louisville, then cheered as he purged long-time faculty members who disagreed with the evangelical fringe's view of biblical inerrancy. Meanwhile, the conservatives have pushed this un-Christ-like "religion" down the throats of foreigners using the SBC missionary network.
ReplyDeleteIMHO Christianity has as much evil within it as any other religion on the planet.
Late Breaking News Bulletin:
ReplyDeleteTHEY'RE ALL CULTS!!!
(ok, 'cept for believers in the All Mighty Zeus, the one true doG...)
Being in a cult doesnt meant you're not a good person. (Some of my best friends are in cults...) It means you're gullible and naive, but you can be a good person AND still be gullible and naive.
Like the wise man and/or woman once said: No one ever died in a war waged in the name of science.
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O/T: Harold Camping says we've less than two weeks before the End of the World so if you're planning to enjoy the beautiful Autumn foliage colors, seriously, NOW is the time to do it!!!! He's been wrong so many times before, basic statistics almost guarantees that he's right this time.
The Beatles said it best
ReplyDelete"Living is easy with eyes closed"- and that, is what faith, all faith, any faith is about. Numbing the mind and sootheing the conscience and making money.
IMHO all churches, religions, cults should pay taxes. We live in a Democracy, not a Theocracy.
What others choose or not choose to believe should have nothing to do with politics. More wars, robberies, murders and mayhem have been caused by the belief that one's "god" is better than anothers "god". Start midpoint with the crusades and work your way back and forward to the modern world.
It's all degrees of semantics, but all of them are cults.
It looks like no one explained the meaning of the word "cult", so I will give it a try.
ReplyDeleteIt means "devotion , homage, to person or thing". From The Concise Oxford Dictionary
Early Christians were persecuted because they wouldn't make a sacrifice to the emperor's "genius" (the spirit that guided the emperor). For the Romans this was not the worship of a living emperor, it was like saying "god save the king".
Some Roman emperors were made gods after death, but the Romans were extremely uncomfortable when people in other parts of their empire wanted to worship a living emperor as a god.
The Roman Catholic Church has always talked about the cult of saints and the cult of the Virgin Mary. They use the word "cult" to make it clear that they don't worship Mary or saints. They pay homage to them and offer devotion to them.
When people follow someone like Jim Jones, it is a cult because they don't actually worship their leader, but it is close to worship.
I'm a progressive who views the entanglement of religion and politics with suspicion. Do we or do we not want to end religious discrimination in the workplace? The White House Oval Office is a working space and should be protected. http://debutopia.blogspot.com/2011/10/keep-your-mitts-off-mitt.html
ReplyDeleteRomney, and any Mormon offended by being referred to as cultists, need to be asked why they adhere to a religion whose prophet, Joseph Smith, referred to Christianity, in general, as being cultic.
ReplyDeleteHe actually, claimed that God Himself referred to Christianity as “all wrong,” an “abomination,” “all corrupt” and “far from me”—this is the very foundation of the Mormon religion.
Pardon the spam-like URL but, see: http://www.examiner.com/messianic-jewish-in-national/rick-perry-on-robert-jeffress-mormonism-as-cult