Okay somebody sent this to me in an e-mail and I have not been able to stop thinking about it.
It took me a while to determine WHY I found it so troubling, but then it dawned on me that Bachmann, by essentially playing serving wench to a room full of powerful men, had essentially undermined females everywhere.
Now I will need the women, especially those of you who have lived through the battle for equality in the sixties and seventies, to weigh in on this and tell me if I am off base, but to my mind Bachmann reduced herself from powerful representative of females in this country, to a second class citizen serving the needs of her male superiors.
Now before you jump on me for being sexist, I would like to point out that if ANY of the men who are currently at the bottom of the polling heap had done something similar I would have perceived that as a sign of weakness as well, and the end of their candidacy. And yes I will concede that also applies to Herman Cain, who is NOT at the bottom of the polls but due to certain prejudices would have played into a stereotype that would have dramatically reduced his electability.
Let me explain my point a little more here. These individuals are engaged in a contest of wills, and an attempt to demonstrate to the American people their ability to lead the most powerful nation on earth. EVERYTHING they do is open to scrutiny, and rife with hidden meaning.
By serving the men at that table Bachmann may have been doing something both kind, and completely in character for her, but it was NOT Presidential. And since Bachmann is also a female, and is the sole representative of women in this contest, it is not only NOT Presidential it is also an insult to all of the women who worked so very hard to prove themselves an equal to men, in the work place, in their communities, and in politics.
Just try to imagine Hillary Clinton doing something similar.
Can't do it can you?
And if you want to really understand my point imagine if Herman Cain suddenly whipped out a shoeshine box and started applying a spit shine to Rick Perry's boots.
Now as I explained, THIS is my gut reaction to seeing the video, you are of course free to disagree. But if you DO disagree tell my WHY I am wrong and resist the urge to simply call me a misogynist pig followed by a bunch of exclamation points. That does not really further the discourse.
I totally agree with you. Sadly, though, it will only endear her to the base, who like it when brown people and wimmin' know their place in relation to white males.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree with you.
ReplyDeleteI've been known to grab a pitcher of water in a busy restaurant to refill all the glasses at my table, when my own water glass needed refilling.
ReplyDeleteHowever, Michele-with-one-"L" failed "Presidential Appearances 101" by doing "the little woman's" service to the rest of the male candidates in that room.
She could have requested some help from the hosting personnel for all of the candidates, or, simply poured water into her own glass and then passed the pitcher to the next person. However, even that second option is highly questionable when appearances count.
She gets "A+", though, in her greatest talent, which is "Cluelessness".
Totally agree.
ReplyDeleteYou are right === and brownie points for seeing this (as a guy). It speaks well that you noticed.
ReplyDeleteThe minute she said her beliefs required her to be subservient to her husband, I felt she gave away any right to ask the public to elect her. She had essentially just told us that a vote for her was a vote for her husband to lead. Blecchhhhh!
This was planned. Ordinarily the debate host/sponsor would take care of the water, but someone/everyone wanted Bachmann to serve the water.
ReplyDeleteShe has a servant's heart?
Completely in agreement with you.
ReplyDeleteI'm in my 60s. Your take on this resonates with me. I don't have time to post all the reasons, just to say that Bachmann disgusts me, just as Palin does.
ReplyDeleteThey are throwbacks to some of the most warped and unproductive attitudes our culture has ever experienced. We've thankfully been making strides toward overcoming the racism, sexism, and religious bigotry that has marred our past.
Now women like Palin and Bachmann, and their male counterparts Cain, Perry, etc., are doing their best to turn back the clock and bring back old prejudices, hatred, and jingoist militarism disguised as patriotism.
From just reading the HEADLINE of this piece, I immediately formed an opinion of Bachmann as WEAK. (Well, weaker than I already saw her being.)
ReplyDeleteFurther, it shows she has NO IDEA of how to act as any kind of "leader."
I had hoped she would end up as the Republican nominee...expecting after scrutiny and debates with Obama, to see the most lopsided election relult in the nation's history.
Michele Bachmann has greater flaws than engaging in kind gestures, which is what I think she did. But her kindness, in whatever form, is far outweighed by her general loonieness. Let 'er be nice, she's not going to be the GOP nominee now or ever.
ReplyDeleteGryphen, I agree with you and had your thoughts on first seeing it.
ReplyDeleteI will do this at a meeting of my peers in a conference room. In this instance? Totally demeaning.
ReplyDeleteIn, say a meeting with my coworkers or those I want to address, if the water was not already dealt with, I would do what she did. It's no big deal and show awareness and a willingness to accommodate (regardless of gender). If I were in an interview, on the other hand, I would not... unless the interview was for a maid or nanny. Her every action is scrutinized and she did not present herself as a serious candidate focused on the debate. I think she sort of made a show of it... again, attention for the wrong reason. It really shows a lacking on the event organizers- hard to believe they didn't have this taken care of prior to cameras rolling. The whole thing was very tacky. She could have just poured her own and passed the pitcher on.
ReplyDelete"Sally Housecoat" just lost the female vote-if there ever was one to be had for her. Did she also allow the other candidates to smack her on the ass as well?
ReplyDeletePathetic.
She could have gotten it for herself and offered it to those seated beside her and/or offer the pitcher be passed along. By getting up and SERVING all, although it was a nice gesture, is a deferential act and should not have been done in the setting where she needs to be seen as equal not sub-servant. It would seem to create an expectation in men that she would/should continue to be sub-servant to males in all areas.
ReplyDeleteWTF????!!!
ReplyDeleteIf this was her home that she had invited these men into, and she served them, then fine.
ReplyDeleteBut this was a political venue at which she was supposedly an equal, attending with a purpose. She wasn't there as a waitress, as an assistant, or a caterer.
Her behavior was inappropriate in that respect.
I'm sure she see's it in a very different light. Bachman's religion demands that she serve her superior males. It's what she has been trained to do from day one. I would think that would be a hard habit to break if one became POTUS.
She is an embarrassment to real feminists everywhere.
Michele Bachmann is an evangelical Christian. As such, she believes — and has publicly stated — that wives are to be subservient to their husbands in all things. After all, the Bible says so.
ReplyDeleteIt's not like subservience is an intrusive big gubmint regulation that impinges on our liberty- that's the way God- he!- likes things. Look it up.
Why would I disagree? Though I also invite women who have lived through the 80's, 90's and the first decade of the twenty-first century to respond as they are in this fight too.
ReplyDeleteThe Roots Played 'Lyin Ass Bitch' As Michele Bachmann Walked Onto 'Jimmy Fallon' Last Night (VIDEO)
ReplyDeleteMichele Bachmann stopped by "Late Night With Jimmy Fallon" yesterday to promote her new book, Core of Conviction.
We noticed that, following a rowdy segment with Jason Segel, the crowd really quieted down for the presidential hopeful.
Her short walk to the couch seemed interminable thanks to the fact that there was literally not one bit of audible applause or cheering.
But that just meant you could hear the tune the Roots played her on with more clearly.
Listen to the music — and the lack of crowd love — below.
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-roots-michelle-bachmann-jimmy-fallon-video-2011-11#ixzz1eSJGIjAF
Completely agree. I hope they left her a tip.
ReplyDeleteNah... don't blow this too much out of context. Women who are used to making and serving meals to family and friends sort of automatically do this kind of thing.
ReplyDeleteYour reaction and explanation were right on target.
ReplyDeleteThe terms 'public servant' and 'servant's heart' are frequently used for and by public officials. The Christian teaching is that a leader is the servant of all...Jesus washed his disciples feet. Whatever. That spin won't fly here. Bachmann's comment, "I'm used to it...,' put the water pouring in the role of woman's duty. I felt very uncomfortable watching.
You are absolutely NOT wrong!
ReplyDeleteActually, I totally agree with you and had the same reaction. Of course we know she did this to show what a great mommy she is. I am hardly a feminist, am college educated but have not pursued a career and feel that my greatest accomplishment is being the kind of mother I was lucky enough to have. I am a Mother Earth type, to be sure. But NEVER would I, as a Presidential (!) candidate decide it was my JOB to pour water for the other fools around the table. One of the so-called "gentlemen" (sic)-maybe the one who "totally respects women"- Herman Cain- should have gently taken the pitcher from MB and poured his own water and then pass the pitcher along. It would have been the GRACEFUL thing to do BUT then none of these guys would ever think of it! Another great post, Gryph.
ReplyDeleteActually I think she's pandering to the Arab vote.
ReplyDeleteYup, you're right, Gryphen. This video is creepy and sad, and a great example of how evangelical women are subjugated by their ridiculous misogynistic faith.
ReplyDeleteYou know...just like the Bachmann's marriage!!
Yup. Pour your own freakin' water. How many of those powwwwerful men, even noticed or thanked her.
ReplyDeleteIn a biz situation. Pour your own freakin' water.
This seems right in line with her opinions....subserviant to her husband (men) in general. She is a disgrace to all women just like her buddy Palin. They set women back hundreds of years and sure as hell dont represent me.
ReplyDeleteI am a woman, the daughter of a single mom who went back to school after a divorce, got a Masters and went on to have a career, raising 4 children without an ex's financial support.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you completely, Gryphen. You are not being sexist, in fact you are being the opposite.
If you are going to run for these highest offices as a woman, you are pretty much going to have to be/act as tough as these men. They would never dream of getting up and pouring water for their political rivals. (Hillary would NEVER have done that, or Margaret Thatcher, or Madeleine Albright, to name a few examples.)
The reality is that Michelle Bachmann has little chance of being involved in the GOP run, ultimately. So in some sense it doesn't matter what she does.
I suppose my nurturing and hosting side might relate to her impulse to pour water for everyone, but not in this game. I honestly don't know why they hadn't poured it prior to people sitting down, but I guess they just thought the candidates would ask to have the pitcher passed if they wanted some? I don't think it was a setup or anything.
Huge error on her part, however, and extremely telling. To me it says she doesn't even take herself seriously as a contender; not now, not ever.
The idea that this was part of a strategy to score points with Conservative Christians just doesn't ring true for me, either. Not in the cut-throat man's world of politics.
She just effectively undercut any position of strength she retained - which was very little to begin with.
Bless her heart, she's just like me. She and Sarah are just alike. That will pull in a lot of votes from Sarah's bots! She has a servants heart. :-)
ReplyDeleteJust IMAGINE the hue and cry if Barack or Michelle Obama did something like this at an official function.
ReplyDeleteNo. Just NO.
While it's a nice gesture on Bachmann's part, it is a gesture of weakness in this setting and shows Bachmann is woefully ignorant of how a President should behave.
Perhaps she should have washed their feet, also, too!
ReplyDelete@ Anony 8:35 - Sure sounds like you are a feminist to me! A feminist doesn't mean that you have to have a "career". You can be a Mom, a homemaker, and still be a kick-butt feminist.
ReplyDeleteLike the terms "Liberal" and "Environmentalist", the right wing as attempted to re-define the word "feminist" as to mean some hard, man and child -hating female.
A feminist is one who simply believes that woman should have equal consideration as a man, in all things - whether it be her choice of a career and what she gets paid for that job, health care, or political/social power.
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/11/michele-bachmanns-intro-song-on-jimmy-fallon-lyin-ass-bitch.php?ref=fpnewsfeed
ReplyDeleteThe Roots played Michele Bachmann onto Jimmy Fallon's show with the song "Lyin' Ass B**ch." Really!
I wouldn't allow Michele to pour my water for me. Much less our country.
ReplyDeleteShe is as dangerous to women's rights as the current attacks on women's health - and it is all intentional. On 60 Minutes this week, Grover Norquist admitted that he would love to take the country back to the 1800's. Women like Bachmann and Palin are helping these megalomaniacs get their wish. This image of Bachmann makes me physically ill.
ReplyDeleteCan you imagine Hillary doing this?
I've considered myself a feminist since I was in college in 1971.
ReplyDeleteAnd you are exactly right - Bachmann is deliberately demonstrating women's second class status in this country, since repugs think that's a good thing.
She is nothing if not a poster child for cognitive dissonance.
I'll withhold judgement until the next debate. If one of the male candidates, say Newt Gingrich, goes around filling the water glasses, then Michelle gets a pass. Oh, and just FYI fellow readers, I'm not holding my breath, either.
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing wrong with pouring water for others, if you are the host/ess.
ReplyDeleteBut what is their PAC money or debate environments for but to serve any of em, all of em? Kiss their ass, pump them up and say, "Yeah, you really nailed that, you are world-leader quality!" There are people to do that for her.
Totally in character? Sure. Like Bush rubbing the German Chancellor's shoulders. A great head-shake moment for Americans.
Well, she's already carrying the water for the Koch Brothers, she might as well fill some glasses with it.
ReplyDeleteIn this context, it was inappropriate. It scares the hell out of me that woman who believes she should be subservient to men is running for the GOP ticket. How would the subservience work in the big picture of international relations? Yes, I'm female.
ReplyDeleteWell I'm in the right age group,burned more than one bra awnd attended more than one sit in - I know the words to 'we shall overcome' by heart even today - and have fond memories of sitting on cold marble floors chanting the warm tune.
ReplyDeleteMy take on this is Michele is so feeling like a fish out of water in this candidacy she does stuff like this to feel like she belongs. My guess is she has low self-esteem and needs to play the hostess in order to up her sense of security.
Have you ever felt so out of place at a party you offered to help the hostess in the kitchen? It made a connection ewith strangers. I believe this is the only thing Michele was after n this setting. She just wanted to feel a part of the group - create a niche where she could feel comfortable and as important a player as anyone else in the room.
The fact that she is subservient at home simply made it easy for her to choose 'water pouring' as a way to boost her self-confidence.
We tease her so much and I will continue to fight for her to NEVER be president - but the truth is, I feel sorry for her on so many levels. Her entire political world is driven by males to whom her religion compels her to 'obey'. What a confusing world she's created for herself.
I don't think it was a kind gesture of one with a 'servant's heart,' I think she likes to be thanked, likes to be seen as productive.
ReplyDeleteBut she is just insane. Not cause she served water to men aspiring to be the most powerful in the world, but because she is delusional and in over her head. Just like old whatserface, the Mamma Grizzly that is 'so smart' and would make an awesome President and whatnot. You know the one, the one who came up with "Hope and Change" and who Michele copies in dress?
You nailed it, Gryphen. It's called decorum. And presidential bearing. And she's displayed none of it. It's a huge indictment of the baggery crowd that they see - or saw - something presidential in this cocktail waitress/semi-tax attorney.
ReplyDeleteCan you imagine the howls from snarling wingers if video appeared showing President Obama or Secretary of State Clinton serving their "equals" like a saloon wench?
If Marcus were straight, he'd be one lucky husband to have such a subservient wife.
ReplyDeleteShe is a serving wench.
ReplyDeleteBachmann quote:
“As Proverbs tells us, we can make our own plans, but the Lord gives the right answer,” she writes. “I sensed an answer. I knew what I was being directed to do. I was called to serve.”
www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/11/22/six-juiciest-bits-from-michele-bachmann-s-new-book.html
crikey...even Luntz wanted her to sit the fuck down.
ReplyDeleteHillary actually tried to be treated fairly and point blank told interviewers that they endlessly coddled Obama.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, even without Michele's actions or anyone else, until women ride through town with a man's "member" displayed at the end of a long stick, we will never be seen as equal.
Sarah has some massive ovaries to call out blatant sexist attacks. I wish Michele would.
There is nothing wrong with using feminine wiles to try to be seen as equal. Men use their machoness everyday. I personally think if all women in a corporate environment should wear low cut blouses and high skirts with slits, just to show men, "hey fuck you very much. If you're gonna picture me naked, im gonna make you as uncomfortable as possible."
H A D T O T U R N I T O F F ...after 19 seconds. The stupid hurt my eyes and ears!
ReplyDeleteQuestlove on Twitter
ReplyDeleteaight late night walkon song devotees: you love it when we snark: this next one takes the cake. ask around cause i aint tweeting title.
https://twitter.com/#!/questlove/status/138861052338249728
Maybe the water was laced with something.
ReplyDeleteUncle Gryphen,
ReplyDeleteYou're like the uncle most of us had growing up that loved women, fast cars, girlie magazines and told it like it was -- straight w/no chaser. I'm on the fence with this one. I'm a woman and I don't care for Michele Bachmann at all. Did the band cross the line? Even though it was a joke, that was one harsh funny.
See Anon 8:24AM Link To Video
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-roots-michelle-bachmann-jimmy-fallon-video-2011-11#ixzz1eSJGIjAF
7:58 a.m., I think you nailed it: She is trying to demonstrate her "servant's heart." Think Jesus washing the disciples' feet in the New Testament. "The last shall be first, and the first shall be last." Etc. Dog whistle to the dominionist base, who love that kind of "humility" in their leaders. (One of the most frequently oft repeated criticisms of Obama by my fundie dad is that he's "arrogant.")
ReplyDeleteWas just reading on rawstory.com about the brilliant O'Reilly/Kelly discussion last night inre: pepper spray. (They're both pinheads, btw!) A commenter used a phrase to describe Megyn Kelly that also fits Bachmann and Palin (and probably most rwnj women, imho)... a walking vacancy. How great is that??
ReplyDeleteI thought so, too! All that was missing was a French maid's costume and a feather duster . . .
ReplyDeleteFound this on a "word detective" site:
"To carry someone's water" seems to have appeared in the late 1970s in the figurative sense in which it is now most often used, and almost certainly sprang from sports, where the position of "water boy," charged with catering to the players' comfort (including supplying them with water and the like), is the lowest rung in the team hierarchy." Go Michele . . .
When I was growing up and we'd get together every Sunday with the relatives, the subservient women would jump up after dinner to do the dishes and serve dessert while the men watched football. It was then that I decided to like football. I give a hearty THANK YOU to all the real women who decided this wasn't right -- all the way back to the Women's Suffrage movement, through Gloria Steinem, Betty Friedan, Germaine Greer, and beyond.
Peace, All. OCCUPY!!
This was totally inappropriate in this setting or any business setting. I can see pouring your own glass and offering to pour for the person next to you while you had the pitcher, but definitely not standing up like a waitress and filling everyone's glass. Wow, just wow.
ReplyDeleteand Cain is a bigot:
ReplyDeleteHerman Cain Thanks ‘God’ His Doctor Wasn’t A Muslim
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/11/22/herman-cain-thanks-god-his-doctor-wasnt-a-muslim/
Michele Bachmann Campaign Chair Compares Same Sex Marriage To Marrying The Eiffel Tower
ReplyDeletehttp://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/11/21/michele-bachmann-campaign-chair-compares-same-sex-marriage-to-marrying-the-eiffel-tower/
You hit the nail on the head. And NO, I can't picture Hillary doing this.
ReplyDeleteSomehow, I think the baggers will interpret this as Michelle "being just like us". (Sigh.)
Makes me wonder if those guys left her a tip.
ReplyDeleteI consider myself NOT a feminist. I grew up in a household of men not knowing there was a difference between men and women besides the obvious physical differences. There was no such thing as subservience.
ReplyDeleteThat said, as a potential leader of the free world, Bachmann shows that she will kowtow to other world leaders. Not okay. Bachmann fails.
Your assessment is not at all sexist. It confirms that Michele Bachmann has no appreciation for the struggles that females have endured in a male dominated society, and many still do in political circles.
ReplyDeleteSadly, Bachmann has already admitted that she is subservient to her husband and that subservience to males should be the lot of all good Christian females.
This brings into question her judgement of what Americans - and women in particular - are expecting in a true leader. Thankfully, I believe it is one of the final nails in the coffin of her run for POTUS!
My heart gets heavier every week by the revelations of all of these right wing nut cases. Frightening.
ReplyDeleteIf I felt that by serving the men, MB was purposefully demonstrating that she was a servant of the PEOPLE, I would disagree with you.
ReplyDeleteHowever, IMO, MB's actions are those of a woman who believes she is a servant of MEN, regardless the circumstance, and would therefore make for a very bad leader.
I do disagree that such a move would be a negative in all cases. If a MALE at the top of the board performed such an act, I would see it as a sign of strength. On the other hand, given that women are still not on equal ground with men (in spite of tremendous leaps forward), I do not suggest such an act for a woman who is leading the pack.
Her male rivals missed a good chance to increase their odds with the female voters. If one of them had taken the pitcher and said, "I'm capable of pouring my own water and am not comfortable with having a female politician do this," then he would have made headlines.
ReplyDeleteThis immediately sent my mind back to the first debate and her doubling down on 'Face the Nation' wherein she was asked a question to explain herself and she responded '...insisting that when she said wives should be submissive to their husbands, she meant that married couples should have mutual respect'. Bachmann reaffirmed that to her, "submission means respect, mutual respect."
ReplyDelete"Do you think submissive means subservient?" O'Donnell asked.
"Not to us," Bachmann said. "To us it means respect. We respect each other, we listen to each other, we love each other and that is what it means."
'Subservient' 'Submissive' - there really is not much difference IMO.
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-3460_162-20092175.html
Her response in the debate/media appearances, raised the question of 'who would truly be the president' if she won.
It brings to mind the emails and info as to Toad being the 'shadow governor' which VanFleaBag tried to explain away unsuccessfully.
Michele is no champion of woman's rights. When she described being subservient to her husband, Marcus, that was the sign that she lives in the 1950's. Back then, a woman was know as Mrs. Marcus Bachmann, not Michele Bachmann. The only jobs that were acceptable for women were: teacher, nurse, mother. The few women in public life were exceptions. Margaret Chase Smith got her job replacing her husband in the Senate. Eleanor Roosevelt was one of the few champions of women doing important work on their own. (And, she had the President's name going for her).
ReplyDeleteMichele went to law school because Marcus told her to. Marcus guided and shaped her career. Michele and the rest of the religious right do not want women to have control over their own reproductive health, even though they want to get government out of every other part of people's lives.
Michele should be giving a great big thank you to Sarah Palin for opening the door to crazy, right wing, conservative, religious candidates. Michele doesn't have to pour water or do anything else to show that she doesn't get it. Every time she opens her mouth, we know that she is hopelessly out of step with the times.
You could look at it as if she maintained power by distributing the valuable commodity. But I don't think that was why she did it. I have been in banquet situations with men my age (70's), and they seem surprised that I object to the ladies plates being served first. It seems inefficient to me, but the men are startled that I would notice this.
ReplyDeletePS - But still, pouring water for others at an event such as this is a very odd thing to do.
ReplyDeleteEven in business lunch meetings, where, for example, I've run to the office kitchen for napkins for the group. When I return, I sit down, take one and pass the rest to the person beside me (to take one and pass along), or I put them in the center of the table. It doesn't even occur to me (even though I'm a mom) to pass them out individually. The men in my office do the same.
It's the long game, and Barack Obama is a master at it! It's what I have seen for a long time and why I will vote for him in 2012 (among a million other things)
ReplyDeleteThe Great Rope a Dope trick
...Last summer during the debt ceiling hostage crisis, Obama appeared to be the loser, but yesterday Republicans woke up to the reality that they lost Big Time--that we were going to get $1.2 trillion in deficit reductions, with 50% of the cuts coming from the military and none of the cuts from Social Security and Medicare. The Congressional water carriers for the Military Industrial Complex are in a panic.
Republican lawmakers moved quickly Monday to protect the Pentagon from automatic budget cuts that will be triggered by the supercommittee's failure, with the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee saying he'll soon introduce legislation to repeal them.
President Obama immediately threatened to veto any attempt to undo the spending cuts. That means that Republicans would have to get a 2/3 rds majority to undo the first meaningful cutback in the Military budget in 60 years. In addition, if Obama also threatens to veto any attempt to restore the Bush Tax cuts in 2012 (they expire automatically on January 1, 2013), progressives will have totally changed the inequality dynamic, without having to pass a single piece of legislation.
So why aren't progressives celebrating this morning?
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/11/22/the_great_rope_a_dope_trick/index.php?ref=fpblg
OK - I'll do my Holiday Inn Express day after and try to get into your head.
ReplyDeleteLet me tell you a bit about women in some evangelical churches. Some churches lean towards the verses that spoke to women in the early church to how abstain from selfishness and serve their husbands and children first. They worked at different things, maybe they earned money. If they were a homemaker, that was their call to be the best one they could be, not spend wasteful time going from home to home, gossiping, but to be busy caring for the home business.
Back then, I don't exactly know how the dynamics of roles between men and women played out, if each household had elder parents doing chores and taking care of kids while the mother was at the market, working a private garden, keeping animals, while husband may be earning his keep either out in fields, or carpentering, or tentmaking, or fishing, or working for some entrepreneurial business of the time. If a woman was single, no doubt she was earning her keep being of service to others.
Michele Bachmann here seems to be trying to integrate her beliefs of Christ is the head of the man, the man is the head of the woman, which is in some verse. I don't know the full context, must go and check. The gut reaction you and some and I get (maybe) are that she is disengenuous about her passion to run as POTUS. She seems to be more concerned of running as a candidate of New Testament wife instead of POTUS. She either does the one or the other. She is either going to have shake off her religious views about the roles of men and women according to what society needs or christians need. And she can't do both. If there are societal practices that Michele doesn't agree with because of her religious belief, then she either has to withdraw and let another man/woman take her place. Because she knows SHE can't compel men/women to see the world her way, as President of the United States. What bugs me is that she and others think they can just swagger into the role of Presidential candidate and exploit their personal beliefs as a tool to get votes, in this case that she will always be subservient to men. As POTUS she would be in charge of many men and her role as leader will compromise her role as christian subservient woman. She knows that. Still, she wants to be POTUS. It's the disengenuous games these people play. Her strutting around pretending she's all that subservient woman, who asks Marcus permission for everything is ridiculous.
That little drama she did there was to reinforce to her right-wing base that she's a woman who takes her biblical role seriously. And there's nothing wrong with that either. But it's the hypocrisy - MB's hypocrisy trying to pretend she's some godly woman who serves her husband and the elder men surrounding her. That act wouldn't last long once she was in the White House and looking back at her career life, I'd bet she made a lot of choices that removed her from the eligible bible momma (New Testament) wanna-be list. Just my 2 cents.
I think Michele was feeling a little GUILTY lately because she's been getting "served" a lot my men all through her career. She probably has cleaning staff, babysitters, nannies, accountants, people who do her and Marcus' bidding. She's more of an Old Testament wife, like Sarah, who had concubines, maids, and staff to keep things in order. Yea, I think Michele wanted to prove to herself and the candidates that she's still the christian wife, so she poured them some water.
ReplyDeleteNew Testament women in the early church were asked by Jesus to live in moderation - keeping themselves occupied with their families and helping out the early church by being hospitable, reaching out and asked to do what men were asked to do in sharing the gospel. Michele doesn't pass the grade here. But neither do I. But she's trying to get everyone to THINK she does. And that's sad, because she's using the good gospel like a novelty on her resume to gain support.
Michele, you poured a little water. Good for you. But Jesus washed his apostles feet, to show them that he was their friend, and there to serve mankind.
If it were me I would have taken that pitcher and poured it down Herman Cain's pants.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteHillary actually tried to be treated fairly and point blank told interviewers that they endlessly coddled Obama.
Honestly, even without Michele's actions or anyone else, until women ride through town with a man's "member" displayed at the end of a long stick, we will never be seen as equal.
Sarah has some massive ovaries to call out blatant sexist attacks. I wish Michele would.
There is nothing wrong with using feminine wiles to try to be seen as equal. Men use their machoness everyday. I personally think if all women in a corporate environment should wear low cut blouses and high skirts with slits, just to show men, "hey fuck you very much. If you're gonna picture me naked, im gonna make you as uncomfortable as possible."
9:32 AM
This has got to be the STUPIDEST statement I have ever seen on this site...only a Palin or a Palinbot could have written this!
Governor Dirty Wig is this YOU? Um...you sound a little repressed there...lot's of interesting ...um...imaginery you got going on there....you might need to call up your buddy Glen Rice...he'll take care of that for ya'!
Sarah Palin Hacking Trial: Husband Todd Paid By Government To Attend Despite Not Testifying
ReplyDeleteKNOXVILLE, Tenn. -- The government paid nearly $2,500 for Sarah Palin's husband to come to the trial of a Tennessee college student who hacked into her email – even though Todd Palin never testified, court records show.
In all, the government paid more than $29,000 to fly members of the Palin family and other witnesses to Knoxville, send a prosecutor to Alaska for research and pay other travel expenses, according to the Department of Justice records obtained by The Associated Press through a Freedom of Information Act request. Air travel totaled about $18,600, and hotel bills amounted to nearly $3,300.
The thousands of dollars spent by prosecutors helped them win a conviction on one felony and one misdemeanor charge against David Kernell, who finishes his 10-month sentence on Wednesday. Prosecutors have said that Kernell's punishment for the hacking during Palin's failed 2008 vice presidential bid should deter any hackers who considered targeting candidates in next fall's presidential election.
The former Alaska governor, her daughter Bristol and an aide were among the witnesses called to the stand, but the chief prosecutor said he decided Todd Palin's testimony wasn't needed. Sarah and Bristol Palin told jurors that they harassed and their lives were disrupted after Kernell hacked into Sarah Palin's Yahoo! Email account and made screenshots public that included personal email addresses and cell phone numbers.
Records show Todd Palin received $2,244.30 as reimbursement for airfare from Alaska to Tennessee, along with $122 for meals and incidentals and an attendance fee of $120. He was listed as a fact witness.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/22/todd-palin-sarah-palin-hacking-trial_n_1108349.html?ref=politics
It's not her fucking house.
ReplyDeleteShe's not playing hostess.
She's auditioning for a job.
The biggest job in. the. world.
She might as well offered to tie their shoes...
I thought Republicans wanted everyone to take care of themselves.
I love the people who want to chalk this up to a "kind gesture" on Michelle's part.
ReplyDeleteHa! I bet they'd rather she not rip them a new policy asshole rather than get a refill, but whatever...
"...simply poured water into her own glass and then passed the pitcher to the next person. However, even that second option is highly questionable when appearances count."
ReplyDeleteI have no clue why you find that questionable. I would call it polite. I would also have no problem if she actually poured water for the person next to her, provided that person in some way was incapable or infirm, in an ordinary business or professional setting - though considering these are political rivals, that could be misconstrued and highlighting a weakness...e.g. John McCain's war injuries or age.
Oh c'mon, this is a great way to show her capabilities. She is running for hostess-in-chief at the local Denny's, right?
ReplyDelete@ 9:51 my guess is your fundie daddy is a racist. I would guess he had no problem with the clueless Shrub and his "Bring it on" obnoxious asshole-ness.
ReplyDeleteThought the exact same thing when I saw it. Spot on.
ReplyDelete"Michele and the rest of the religious right do not want women to have control over their own reproductive health, even though they want to get government out of every other part of people's lives. "
ReplyDeleteEven though she had "only" five children. C'mon - why not the Duggar route - she's been married long enough to have a dozen.
BTW, even five Bachmann offspring is far too many Both enviro-responsibility and contributing to the stupid/nasty genepool.
Michele Bachmann's Book - Rotten to the Core
ReplyDeleteYou can read Chapter 1 of Bachmann's book at MSNBC's Today website. Lots of reviews on the web of Bachmann's book. I recommend two - Tim Murphy fact-checks Bachmann's tome at Mother Jones:
There's enough to dispute within the first 13 pages that by the time she announces, on page 14, that she was born in Waterloo, Iowa, you almost want to ask for a birth certificate.
Also read David Graham's "Six Juiciest Bits From Michele Bachmann's New Book" at the Daily Beast with this nice shout-out to this blog:
Bachmann has been criticized for stretching the truth in the past, and she won’t escape such charges in the book. The first instance comes right at the start. Bachmann opens by explaining how her political career began after she decided to attend the district Republican convention on a whim. When a group of activists decided they needed to run a candidate against the increasingly moderate incumbent state senator (his name was Gary Laidig; oddly, she never names him), she was chosen, despite her lack of political experience and the jeans she was wearing. To her surprise, she won—setting the stage for her career in the state senate, the U.S. House, and eventually for a presidential run. Every successful candidate needs a compelling foundational myth, and this surely fits the bill. The only problem? It’s more myth than foundation. As various commentators have pointed out—starting with the doggedly adversarial blog Dump Bachmann—she already was a political activist by that April day.
Read the whole thing.
Bachmann will have only days to enjoy the post-publication glow - I have received word that our book titled "The Madness of Michele Bachmann" is hot off the press and review copies may be available as early as next week.
http://www.dumpbachmann.com/2011/11/michele-bachmanns-book-rotten-to-core.html
Oops, Glennda is all twisted up in the panty department today:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mediaite.com/online/glenn-beck-jimmy-fallons-a-%E2%80%98despicable-human-being%E2%80%99-who-%E2%80%98should-be-ashamed/
Marcus, Marcus, Marcus, Marcus, Marcus
ReplyDeleteAlthough Bachmann is the protagonist of her book, her husband is seldom far from view. She writes effusively about her first meeting with him, their romance, and the symbiotic codependence of their relationship—often in touching detail. She drops some entertaining details—like the fact that she gave the suit he wore to their wedding away to Goodwill (she never liked it, she says—it was dark blue velour, but “hey, this was the seventies!”). And she talks about the importance of being an obedient wife, including her decision to leave law school at Oral Roberts for a spell because Marcus was unhappy in Tulsa.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/11/22/six-juiciest-bits-from-michele-bachmann-s-new-book.html
water: symbol of fertility, christian symbol of rebirth, bible: "Whoever wants to be first must be last of all and servant of all" come on man! if you are going to be an analyst at least pay attention to the major symbols, not just your class insecurities.
ReplyDeleteTom
Did she give foot massages too?
ReplyDeleteshe believes she should be subservient to all men not just her husband. Of course she got her bible wrong again.
She looked ridiculous and silly.
Can marcus pray away idiotic?
Usually bottle water is supplied. I haven't seen pitcher of water in years.
ReplyDeleteHer actions are the flip side of Bush giving backrubs to female heads of state. He treated Merkel like a babe and Michele acts like one.
ReplyDeleteWell, I think you may be reading stuff into this that may be be there. I've taken you to task before, because I find your sexism/feminism baffling. Sometimes you pick up things like this, but you think it's fine to hurl epithets like bitch and whore, completely forgetting the fact they're epithets because they're female.
ReplyDeleteI'm no Bachmann fan, but some people do enjoy playing the host. I probably would have poured the water. I would have considered it rude and egotistical to expect to be waited on, and who would have done the waiting? Some underpaid stage flunky? I'm not too good to pour water, and I certainly think more of someone who does for themselves than expects others to do for them.
That said, Bachmann's dragon lady nails make me think she doesn't do much for herself, but I think you overstate the idea she's set the women's movement back by pouring water. Her stupid does that on its own.
It was a political stunt meant for the men and the subservient women; "Thou shalt submit" was the intended message. She knows she'll never win a general election but it looks like she's pandering hard to out-God the others. Know thy audience and she clearly knows the primary "base" is as marginal as she is.
ReplyDeleteJeez. Bachmann is disgusting, but this is a pathetic thing to rally around.
ReplyDeleteShe volunteered to pour water, nobody told her to do it. This is not an example of being subservient.
It doesn't take much to make everyone frothy here.
If she was a "normal" person I might be peeved, but Bachmann is part of the holy-roller school of dummies, so who the H*** cares?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteJeez. Bachmann is disgusting, but this is a pathetic thing to rally around.
She volunteered to pour water, nobody told her to do it. This is not an example of being subservient.
It doesn't take much to make everyone frothy here.
2:18 PM
"frothy" huh...you sound like you know a lot about that!
Women's equality means not being critical BECAUSE a person is a woman. Face it, G. You wouldn't even have NOTICED if a guy brought in the drinks.
ReplyDeleteI spent my childhood having adults say "I bet you want to be a secretary" while I fully intended becoming a mathematician before departing for Mars and worlds beyond. People were DELIGHTED to tell me by the very smallness of their expectations what a worthless little piece I was and by contrast to what heights the boys would rise.
My HIGH SCHOOL math teacher thought nothing of saying "come on, guys, you're not going to let a GIRL give the answer are you?".
If Michele Bachmann doesn't meet your standards for female behavior, then get off your duff and publish a list of acceptable behaviors so women will know how to pass your tests.
I now return to my more courteous and FEMALE commenting style. Thank you for your patience.
What not a single word about how every one of those men didn't grab the water out her hands. What is wrong with those guys that they are willing to be waited on like passive little drooling toddlers?
ReplyDeleteThere is PLENTY wrong with what those guys did. But, of course, the discussion is about what the woman did. Ha ha ha ha ha.
In my (so feminist it would scorch you) opinion we need to see a good healthy discussion about why those men just regally wallowed in their superior role as lords of the earth. This is the exact same behavior that is tolerated from their birth to their graves.
Or, of course, we could just serenely assume that it was the MEN that did nothing wrong. That route is such a comfortable, easy, brainless path. Yes, let's stick with talking about what the woman did. Let's smirk and say we are feminists.
(oh, BARF)
I recently took a class on negotiation for women. The teacher spent a while talking about why this is a big NO! Don't clean up after your colleagues, don't bake cakes for the staff. Tou aren't a den mom.
ReplyDeleteHubby told her to be a servant so she obeyed.
ReplyDelete"...to my mind Bachmann reduced herself from powerful representative of females in this country, to a second class citizen serving the needs of her male superiors."
ReplyDeleteWRONG, Gryphen! Bachmann was never a powerful representative of females in this country. She is a powerful representative of stupidity and idiocy in this country, female or otherwise.
Having said that, I agree that her actions deserve criticism. I am 61 years old and have been in professional positions, including government, for most of my working life. I have sat on many panels, which, while not rising to the level of a presidential "debate," were still pretty high-level and public. The water protocol is this: Whoever is closest to the pitcher is gracious enough to pour for his/her neighbors, as well as him/herself. Then you pass it down the line, if the others don't have a pitcher of their own. The act of politeness is non-gender-specific; anybody can be gracious to a neighbor. Bachmann's actions take away the equality of the situation and return the whole scenario to the "Mad Men" days. Which, given that these are Republicans, is probably about right.
I think Bachmann's water pouring was a demonstration of a woman's "iron hand in a velvet glove".
ReplyDeleteShe's put out a video statement attacking ALL of her 2012 GOP opponents, and last night mocked them in an appearance on Jimmy Fallon's show.
The GOP men don't know what to do about her now.
Anon@3:40:
ReplyDeleteThank you. An insightful perspective of what's really going on here.
Thanks for saying this.
I'm not hardly scorched, also, too...
I will absolutely vote for Michele Bachmann - as head waitress!
ReplyDelete"Her male rivals missed a good chance to increase their odds with the female voters. If one of them had taken the pitcher and said, "I'm capable of pouring my own water and am not comfortable with having a female politician do this," then he would have made headlines."
ReplyDeleteBut in fact they are oh-so comfortable being waited on by a woman; that's her place doncha know?
I totally agree with you. One other thing that "glared" on the screen was the presence of a bottle of water to the right of the man's elbow, which tells me this entire scenario was pre-planned, Michele competely fell for it, hook, line and sinker, bragging that she's poured water many times in her lifetime. Which leads me to ask What was the point of all this, except to demean a fragile woman running against a field of ego filled asswipe men?
ReplyDeleteWhat's next? Michele washing their feet?
No question, I totally agree with you. Her whole career plan has been self-admittedly designed by her "closeted" husband. She became a tax attorney at his direction. She ran for the State & Federal Legislatures at his direction, & I'm certain she's running for President at his direction. She's a "submissive" wife & now she's proved she's also subservient to GOPTP men regardless of their supposedly equal status as Presidential candidates.
ReplyDeleteThank heavens we'll never have to suffer through having Marcus Bachmann as the shadow President of the US. These are fanatics who don't even deserve to have a job cleaning outhouses.
She should have taken the pitcher poured herself a glass and then passed it down the table. If these men cannot pour a glass of water for themselves, they surely can't handle the Presidency. She looked like a fool and Luntz made her look worse by publicly thanking her and making a big deal of it.
ReplyDeleteAll that being said, if these people were in my home, I'd be happy to serve them as my guests. However, they should be appearing as equals and I can't help but wonder if possibly someone didn't set this up to see what would happen. Luntz would do it, he's always trying to think ahead and to put those he dislikes in a bad light. I don't think he's a Bachmann supporter so if he can demean her, he'd do it. When he asked her to do it, if this is actually what he did, she should have said something like, "Oh, Frank, I think they can manage to pour their own glass of water without spilling it. Right?" Instead, she likes being the center of attention without realizing he was making fun of her. They are all misogynistic to a degree, some more than others, as in Cain & Gingrich.
Gryph...
ReplyDeleteI gotta say thank you for saying something. Ive watched it three times and it bothers me. Alot.
Its just one of those very telling things about a person.
I do not want that lady anywhere near my white house.
She can pour water and sweep...but hell no to anything else.
Right on for you!!
Yes, it Would be the job of an "underpaid flunkie", most likely an intern who is SUPER excited to be that close to the top-tier in politics;
ReplyDeleteThis should have been seen as a meeting. And, as even the moderator pointed out, you need to get down to BUSINESS, not FART around with water, napkins, etc.
That is why there ARE other people to take care of those non-issues - because you are supposed to be there to discuss BIGGER things.
I love that Luntz said his first question was for Bachmann but she couldn't "take"" the question cuz she was on the other side of the table pouring the man's water!
He sent the first question to someone else, but the point was made.
I don't know what her reasoning was, and it doesn't really matter, because what she really did, was remove herself as an equal to the men.
ReplyDeleteIf she could look ahead and realize this would be the result, how could anyone trust her to anticipate a really important problem.
She is an idiot - much the same as Palin!!!
ReplyDeleteI recall years ago when working in a long career (in the same field) that I had been promoted from being a secretary (which it was called in those days!) to an officer position. (Very few women were in that new role I was to assume!)
When in a meeting, one of the fellow male officers - who was use to my providing them coffee during their weekly meetings - asked me to provide them all the same service. I respectfully declined and suggested he make his request to the secretary sitting outside our meeting room. It took awhile, but the guys finally included me in 'their' group. I'm sure it was as hard for them as it was for me in reflection. Makes me laugh now!
I understand the roll of women moving into the 'man's world' back in the 60/70's. It was a challenge. Bachman assuredly did nothing to help women in the private sector or political field in 'serving' her fellow male candidates in the primary.
Again, I find Bachman to be backwards in her actions. And, I'm really surprised she has a seat in Congress.